David Bowie Myers-Brigs type - MBTI, enneagram and personality type info
Sorry, but when Se inferior try to put that on, it looks weird (Manson,Maynard James Keenan), it's the usually unobserved Se in ENFP that gives them that rock-star aspect. David Bowie: "Thematically, I've always dealt with isolation in everything I've written. Except that everything they describe is Ne opportunism. His work makes no reference to Charles Manson or any of those other leaders you've listed. I think you arrived at the ENFP conclusion for the wrong reasons tough. It's part of the shell that I've always built up around myself. But I can't see ISTP. But it's allowed me so many moments of companionship when I've been lonely and a sublime means of communication when I wanted to touch people. Ne-dom pursuing their dreams who are in a constant state of change. He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowledged thoughlimited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation. In fact, the artists who stay the same are the suspicious ones to me speaking as a sp/sx; they either stay the same because they don't wanna loose their fans or they lack enough creativity to evolve. Bowie has no problem with imagination. I'm a collector. They took a Buddhist symbol, the Eastern symbol of the sun, and turned it around so it became a symbol of the dark. v=YOBQBbqSs1gLet's Dance was Bowie's most commercially successful album, but he regards it as his worst album. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. Bowie's Ni-dom on the other hand created cryptic songs like Blackstar which most people still have no idea what that song is about. According to Tony Visconti, Bowie also wrote this song when he was only 16, then recorded a demo for it in the early 70s. But his main obsessions were Adolf Hitler, Aleister Crowley, and Nietzsche. It was this Arthurian need, this search for a mythological link with God. For Bowie, emotions and feelings have always been a problem. I've always found that I collect. Back in the early 1970s before Ziggy Stardust, Bowie wrote the Ni-Ti song "Quicksand" on Hunky Dory. That goes against the very grain of what Fi is: consistent self-narrative and values. There are ways to reconcile it which is why I won't call it an outright contradiction but in Bowie's case it does make me wonder how that works, or if he is giving the most accurate, unbiased assessments of himself. Despite Bowie not promoting "Low" whatsoever and receiving harsh reviews from critics upon its release, to this day it is considered one of the greatest albums ever made. The comparison is still valid in my view since we can see that 82% of people on this site voted that she is an Ni dominant. Ziggy was a caricature he created to portray the inauthenticity of what it means to play the role of the "rock musician". You can see Trent Reznor talking more about that here: https://www. He felt a lot of contempt towards the massive audience that Let's Dance brought to him. Everyones an INFJ. And ENTP 3 is still a strange combination to me ^^ I don't know, I get an ENTP vibe from him. I still see Bowie as a cerebral individual, but I found some ENFPs in "real life" to be just like that. The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. Welcome to MBTIBase - PersonalityBase, here you can learn about David Bowie MBTI type.. I found that I'd taken back to England with me a character who was the epitome of everything that it looked like could be happening to England. No need to strawman me here and say that I am ignorant because I only think Ne types explore ideas. ENFP is also possible. 'China girl' is my favorite song ^_^ but he didn't write that one alone. Ain't that just like him. How did MBTI arrived at the conclusion that such a person is J if all that matters for him/her is perception. If anything Ne can be somewhat more creative than Ni. He was a very cultivated and curious individual, "move to one thing to another when bored with the other". "I was not asking myself who I was". "Tony Zanetta, actor from Andy Warhol's entourage: "David [Bowie] certainly wasn’t shy but David was kind of laid back and quiet. I know ISFPs can be creative, but shit i just don't see any ISFP doing what he didCan't say about him but I was introduce to him Labyrinth with the iconic song Magic Dance. "I was a kid that loved being in my room reading books and entertaining ideas," Bowie recalls. And The Man Who Sold World. Hmm, I'm not convinced :p ENTPs have inferior Si too, so why wouldn't they also be taken for SPs. Look at her discography. To the same degree as they fail to understand themselves -- because they very largely lack judgment -- they are also powerless to understand why they are so constantly undervalued by public opinion. : "The only art I’ll ever study is stuff that I can steal from". Then the articles started coming out 'This Isn't Rock & Roll. I see him as a super-in-control, well-developed ISFP, but do also see where ENFP would come from. @Scotty No sir it is a technique so that you pronounce the letters slower. I'm ISFP 4w3 and he's everything i've ever wanted to be. There are a ton of ISFP votes which make no sense to me. ''from their lowest health level (9)'' Sounds just like what I'd expect out of an ISFP 3w4, and why was my vote changed to INFJ. the guy was a unique artistic provocateur. "I can adopt their accent. He was very specific about who he was interested in. Type 3 elitism is feeling more rich, successful, and famous than others. ""As Bowie has admitted, the Nazi elements of the Duke persona are entirely intentional. Bob Dylan comes to mind as an ISFP and social 4 who would always try to change/adapt his music to the latest trends much to the dismay of his audience who wanted his older folk sound. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings which are ever-changing. ""Inmythology,folkloreandspeculative fiction,shapeshiftingis the ability of a being or creature to completely transform its physical form or shape. So, Intuitive, lead with extroverted perception: clear Ne-dom. Remember how Iggy Pop was impressed by how outgoing he was in Berlin, how large his circle of friends was. Nobody wonders who the "real" them is. ] He didn’t draw attention to himself. , misogynistic bitch. If someone made a good case for it, maybe then I'd be able to get behind him being ENFP. Actually, they can seem like any type, depending on which side of their multi-faceted, multi-layered personality they want to show you in whichever social context you happen to be in. mysterymeat, you make good points on him being more of a Ni type than a Ne type, specially how it takes him him allot to write a song, which is more true for an introverted process. And I don't get what kind of function theory involves starting from the lower functions in that order (Se to Ti to Ni). so/sx 4s show a softer, friendlier side to the public, while only the people closest to them will know of their darker melancholic side. But they couldn't be more wrong. If so, do you see Bowie as left-brained. N and P are the clearest letters. David Bowie: "I always thought that I should change all the time … I know for a fact that my personality now is totally different to what it was then. And when he was singing, he’d take the pose. But I would question anyone who said they really knew him. He created Ziggy, a new-age preacher character with a messiah complex. And yes, one can argue that he "learned to be more self-aware as he got older", but Bowie's been writing self-aware music since his adolescence. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. Every intuitive type explores ideas, that is not exclusive to Ne types. artistic self-expression and originality were more important to him than achievement and success. Anyway, I'm not sure I should argue since I think I've made fair enough arguments before on this page and you seem to have an opposite consideration of Fe/Fi seing how you always type (Bergman page and all). I don't know much about Iggy, but he seems like an ExxP from what I do know. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. This is unrelated to Bowie, but I'd type Iggy Pop a sexual 4 after watching this interviewwhere he states that he would cut himself impulsively on stage with shards of glass because he felt ashamed. In fact, that's the whole point of ,,No Direction Home'' by Martin Scorsese, there is no Bob Dylan the person, just the name under which the many faces of the same artist are brought together. When you ask an extraverted feeler, especially one who's an INFJ, how they really feel they're not going to know what to say. ": https://www. We can see from this interview that he's very N and P. That they want to live those things they imagine in the real world, unlike INP who just likes to create imaginary world with lots of detail, ENFP wants to actually live their dreams. It reflects the way he thinks. There /are/ people I can definitely see it solidly for (e. v=PJ0o5Y05wKsI feel as if the case of "Low" being evidence for 4 > 3 needs more context considering you mentioning yourself that Bowie didn't actively promote it in combination with its initially being reviewed harshly. "I feel this illustrates well why he's a 4 in the enneagram and not a 3 and it also showcases his social instinct quite clearly -- David Bowie, 1997 interview discussing his song 'I'm Afraid of Americans': "That's fairly self-explanatory. For INFJs who value both Ni and Fe, they can switch between personas to suit whomever they encounter. Once a third person has joined any kind of conversation or group that was originally supposed to be for me and one other I instantly go into observer/listener mode and don't actively try to participate. '' The same way it can be applied to David Lynch, Nick Cave, Franz Kafka or Dario Argento. ''He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise. personalitypathways. INFJ 4s chameleon themselves in characters/personas so as to protect their vulnerable, highly sensitive nature. he had a bird's eye view when it came to humanity (Ni), and it's what made him so ahead of his time. Enneagram 3 elitism is different. Jung also proposed that in a person one of the four functions above is dominant – either a function of perception or a function of judging.. He used politics and theatrics and created this thing that governed and controlled the show for those 12 years. He's far too self-aware to be a 3. I think Bowie would have found himself in these descriptions of the extraverted intuitive type. Elliot Smith was a sp/sx 4 and his music stayed folk/bluesy. I want to be plastic. I don't see how writing from the perspective of another character is Fe over Fi, I tough it's well established that both Fi and Fe can do this. Even if acting isn’t your thing, every INFJ still has this in them, and it often comes out in other ways. I'm obviously not a native english speaker, and expressive is quite what I meant to say. @Bobnickmad I respect what you say about the power of Fi, but once again I believe it is imperative that we look within the overall vision of the worker to see how it is relating to the function stack and the ego. Zeego, I did not say that he was interested in cult leaders in general. one-track mind(noun phrase)Definition: Amindlimitedtoorobsessedwithasingleidea,theme,etc. I thought this was supposed to be Ne in function land: exploring a large amount of ideas rather than refining a singular whole. In addition to being like Tilda, an INFJ 5w4 Sx/Sp, his comments about seeking out isolation to feel and explore something are uncannily similar to the way Annie Clark (also INFJ 5w4 Sx/Sp) describes her process of writing "Strange Mercy. I didn't see your comment before mine. But I then realised that many of the ENFP I know are this way, self centered and sometimes lack authenticity. But no, I'm always the retard according to him. "Edmonds: "Yeah, came to believe it. "David Bowie, 1976 interview: "People aren't very bright, you know. To those of you who think he's 3w4, I advise you to go to listen to Bowie's album "Outside" and then come back and tell me if you still believe he's a 3. @idlebody I was reading a couple of Evan Rachel Wood interviews, and she being a person obsessed with David Bowie said that Tilda Swinton (whom she also admires) was like a female version of Bowie. And that became obsessive with me. [Los Angeles] is sort of a callus. "David Bowie, 1996 interview: "Spirituality has been a recurrent qualification of my work from the day I started writing. Tony Visconti tells us that Where are we now is very far from Bowie’s nature. Bowie didn't see himself as an extrovert. @Schmendrick Oh sorry. ""I’ve always found that I collect. His sense of humour (compared to Ricky Gervais by Blackstar's musicians) and way of behaving in live conditions (telling jokes etc) is sheer Ne. In fact, the MBTI ISTJ and ISFJ are clearly Te and Fe Jungian types first and foremost, not introverted irrationals. They really are a black hole, but I've made them people because it would be very hard to explain a black hole onstage. Not putting his career first, not putting 'hey this was successful so I better hold onto that'. Remember that Iggy Pop once said that Bowie knew everyone in Berlin and was a social bee, much more extraverted than himself. I understand that the things I associate with Ne in his behaviour could be seen as Se evidence. In my view, ENFP have actually more Se than INFJ. The Se is however subordinated to Ne so it's usually not apparent. Rest in peace. A truly wonderful, unique, and inspirational person. He's not storing personalities in his head to use for later on, he's saying that he's literally changing his behavior and his accent in real-time when in the presence of another. Gabriel is often mistyped as a 4, but he is a clear 9w1 sx. Not a wishy-washy kind of fey, flower-child thing, but a very medieval, firm-handed masculine God awareness where we go out and make the world right again. No way this guy is a sensor. He wasn’t an attention-seeking guy in the way a lot of really extroverted people are. I did find it much easier having created Ziggy and to then write for him. Jung about introverted irrationals. I'm just a very good actor. 3w4 + ENFPhttp://brianmay. that's where I was at in the early '70s.
. In the interview I'm linking below, David Bowie evades questions about his own feelings because, just like Nick Cave (INFJ), he's not terribly in touch with his own feelings. His music is not usually about his own feelings, but more about the feelings of the characters he's choosing to write about, it's all written from *their* perspective. v=LwTFW4kfHl4David Bowie does have some Fi, mainly because he's a 4w3, but his Fe outweighs his Fi. : I'm not sure whether it is me changing my mind, or whether I lie a lot. " As soon as Ziggy dies onstagethe infinites take his elements and make themselves visible. That's why I loved drugs so much. That is actually one of the few self-revealing songs of his I can think of. Some musician are known for their works, other is for their presentation, Bowie had both. I usually don't agree with what I say very much. David was more taking it all in and always studying everybody. Regardless of whatever definition you are able to scrape up (there's hundreds of descriptions for each function, each of which can be used to support a particular type), wouldn't you say the idea of collecting ideas like Bowie described to be more of a Ne thing, in general. He could be INTP for all I know. Jung theorized that the dominant function acts alone in its preferred world: exterior for extraverts and interior for introverts.. ’ His feelings about who this person was were quite specific. All Dylan did it seems, was to take information from all kinds of non-related areas, from day to day life, news, literature, history and paintings, and his subconscious shaped it into powerfull imagery without imposing too much judgements of either valueing or logical kind. IMO the fact that Bowie was a chameleon, a great impersonator, shows he is definitely not INFJ. My main issues here are:. I remember him recording I’m Afraid of Americans and saying, after one of the early takes, ‘No, he’s got to be more self-doubting than that. The 3s key motivations are recognition for their achievements, to have attention, and to be admired. But in Los Angeles it's fabrication in real life. It's because of that ability that so many people mistakenly viewed him as "messianic" or "Godlike". That may seem paradoxical, but ENFP are also often taken for xSFP because of their lack of concentration and care of details (inferior Si) while ENTPs have fewer chances of passing for a Se user. Ni-doms have to sit around waiting for their inspiration to come from the unconscious. And to answer your other question, all intuitive types "collect" information. And since when do only Ne users explore ideas. Clear as day I N F J. Someone who finds it easier to write for others than about himself =/= MBTI Fi-dom. ' He wasn’t rowdy or raucous. That is the only reason. Taken from the INTPs over at theINTPforum. INFJ so/sx 4w3 7w6 8w9 (The Messenger)Also, the way I determined David Bowie was social instinct first was through his music. Neverteless, Bowie is not really a clear I or E type, but seems to have an E prefereance + some traits typically associated with introverts. You seem to think that only Ne-valuing types are interested in exploring ideas and somehow Ni-valuing types focus on one idea and one idea only. But let me state my case :. "David Bowie, 2002 interview: "I think and read about spirituality all obsessively. That sounds awfully like the language you use to describe high Fi, but in fact, the way he uses it, and the purpose are to understand the nature of how emotions impact reality. lots of copying and pasting involved, but since scotty asked how deep Bowie got with his ideas/obsessions as his "singular focus", I'll copy all that info from his interviews here. But what about Bob Dylan. « Sometimes I must fight against the idea that what is familair is necesarly mediocre » (1999). "And this idea of Ni being connected to the idea of left-brained-ness is a new one to me. Before his death, in his song Blackstar, he once again plays the role of a preacher. I could go on. He started off strictly as a fictional character. Sex becomes a release of energy. "It looks like idlebody is a woman XD Erase and rewind, sowwy XDSo I was the first to defy everyone here saying Bowie was INFJ and now we see Scotty drooling all over idlebody's profile page. I could had that his friendship with Jodorowsky and his interest in Jung (writing a song about him and all) is also demonstrative of Ni, but you could answer that Bowie produced a record like The Man Who Sold The World, inspired by Nietzsche and Aleister Crowley, Ni users. "Francis Whately: "The David Bowie that I knew in my limited way was incredibly courteous, was incredibly polite, well informed, utterly charming. He only has a concept of what the record should be. He always changed his mind, and was honest about it. Before I believed him to be a Ne-dom with a well-developed Ni. 4s are linked to 1s and 2s. It all tends to become the content of my songs. Kendrick Lamar), but as for Bowie, he had a long, fulfilling, and super-productive career over which he would've had plenty of time and chance to develop all of his functions. It's even more obvious when Jung recapitulates the introverted irrational types and describes them in ways that are almost the opposite of the extroverted judging types and the least J overall of the types. Since when has Madonna had difficulty writing songs about herself. That quote can equally apply to Dylan: ,,perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. So I stripped myself down, chucked things out and replaced them with a completely new personality. His tritype is 4-7-8. "And if we're to suddenly lump Bowie as a Ne-user just because he's changed so much, then we might as well do the same for Marilyn Manson as he's followed in the exact same footsteps as Bowie [Taken from 'Dissecting Marilyn Manson' bio]:Any Ni-dom who's a 4 is always going to come across more P over J on the surface because their particular enneagram type is all about being in a constant state of "change". He after mastering and fully exploring a sound or idea, he left it behind and quickly moved on to a new thing. He's more likely INFJ but no one has voted that one either. "I think my problem used to be that I was always shy and fairly awkward in social situations," Bowie says. And I've always seemed to just collect personalities, ideas. 4s sin is envy. Well it took me some time to understand that being detached, somewhat cerebral was not necessarily Ti over Fi in Ne doms. 4w3That makes no sense because Bowie is the archetypal Ne user. Meanwhile David Bowie plays the rock-star persona effortlesly, he embodies it. "David Bowie, 1978 interview: "The Thin White Duke was the most scary of the lot. They both process through analysis. I was still doing Arts Laboratory type things and street theatre at the time. Never really have. I don't know who's trolling, but I would never say something like that, especially not about David Bowie. Youtube him and then compare him to Bowie. I know expert but from a slight deduction I would guess ENTP but with a weird uncommon enneagram combination like 4w3. Bowie is Ni and also heavily Fe. Nothing much left to say. They're beautiful. I think they are the most powerful set of symbols that have been invoked in terms of political history. I was not Ziggy Stardust. You can't stand still on one point for your entire life. "Only a couple years after that interview, Bowie created Ziggy who in turn became the "leper messiah" figure sung about in the Ziggy Stardust song. His need for reinvention, his ch-ch-ch-ch-changes. Some life force. People are quite shocked when I say I'm an introvert because I'm so 'extroverted' in their eyes. By telling us flatly about the inauthencity of that world through his music, he actually became the most authentic musician of his time. The reason why 3s are associated with artifice is because the 3s sin is deceit (deceit with themselves and others). Definitely J over P. Read now what Jung had to say about extroverted intuitive type:. Basically shifting all focus off of himself and into supporting Iggy. The point of the exploration of this character would be to understand the overall underlying nature of the feeling itself, to inform the experienced emotion and give it some context to the construction of a moral code (holistic vision of the ego function). Sorry wrong lyrics from Sledgehammer. I never claimed Bowie is 3 tough, just that the ''social chameleon'' could be more likely a 3 than a 4. Tony wanted Bowie to come back and continue making that "black music" of Young Americans that garnered Bowie so much success. An interview with William Burroughs from 1974:. If you want a real example of an ENFP 4w3 so/sx, look up goth comedian Noel Fielding. In a way it's almost a lost cause to try to determine which judging function these people mainly use (Bowie, Dylan, Lynch, Cave, Kafka, Argento) since what mainly characterized them as artists is that they mainly suppresed judging for the sake of intensifying their perception. I still do that. But exploring possibilities =/= exploring ideas. I meant why you choose ENFP over ENTP, but you made great points about why he's ENxP. Total ISFPISFP 3w4 makes zero sense. That's what they all are… all the little characters I come up with. com/thomson/type2. I don't think I've ever typed anyone in that manner. I guess the context I was trying to put it in was that Bowie was always someone who did whatever he felt like doing, at any point in his career, even at the earliest stages of it, and there was nothing anyone could do or say to stop him. That is what differentiates Fi-dom 4s from INFJ 4s. Analyzing with Ni also seems odd, as it's a perceiving function. Someone hacked into my account and posted the below message. " doesn't sound like a product of some kind of deep analysis, and in fact it sounds like he used this idea primarily to create a lot of possibilities, however obsessed he was with it. Ne musicians are actually much more likely to stick to one thing, like John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Morrissey, etc etc, because they have Si. Everybody's plastic, but I love plastic. ,,The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. All Dylan did it seems, was to take information from all kinds of non-related areas, from day to day life, news, literature, history and paintings, and his subconscious shaped it into powerfull imagery without imposing too much judgements of either valueing or logical kind. David Bowie explaining his stage-play version of Ziggy Stardust:. any way* I never mentioned integration/disintegration. v=Q3L58KyHC_M@bobnickmad Yay. Usually for ENTP (Thurston Moore, Dave Thomas of Pere Ubu), it's more a case of mad scientist at play, while Bowie becomes his art. Ne is his dominant function, his worldview, his driving force. Ni doms are way more focussed and have a strong consciousness of their visions (they even tend to dislike dispersion). Marilyn Manson is xNTP, so wouldn't that make him an Ne user. I'd actually argue that in Bowie's case, it's not Ne, but his so/sx stacking that's responsible for it. It's more obvious when you compare the Jungian Si type and the MBTI ISxJ, they're completely different. Look a the way he works using a program to write lyrics. Thinking – Feeling, represents how a person processes information. Thinking means that a person makes a decision mainly through logic.. When David Bowie creates characters, like Ziggy Stardust for example, his intentions with the character are to explore that character's psyche, what motivates that character, what naive idealistic expectations that character may have, what that character's inevitable downfall might be (example: Ziggy commits suicide) , as well as what emotional state that character is in. In order to create a new person, then, the introverted feeler must in some way be using an intuitive function to do so, but in the way you describe would clearly be Ne: creating a tangible character based on a certain emotion. That's what Bowie is all about. Ignore my comments below saying Peter Gabriel is ENFP because he's also INFJ. com/brian/brianssb/brianssbjan16a. "For more examples of Bowie's Ni, allanyone has to do is look at his creations to see the constant pattern in his work. I'm kind of peeved with 3-ishness being reduced to association with fabrication, artifice, and always being able to conveniently blend in anywhere as opposed to 4's authenticity and integrity when, from my understanding, it's more that 3ishness (3w4ishness, at least) is more about trying to distinguish oneself through actions and skillsets and always trying to become "more" as opposed to a 4ish trying to get to the bottom of and tap into an essence that's more personal. Also, his obsession with psychology and science fiction shown with his lyrics featuring a lot of random scientific symbolism suggests Ti. That intrigued me about the Nazis. He adores INFPs so much. He wrote this song when he was only sixteen years old which he then later got recorded when he was 23. We have to find that sustenance within ourselves. Discover Array, and more, famous people, fictional characters and celebrities here!. If you're not talking about J/P, then you've lost me. Bowie feeling alienated from his audience because they don't have the same taste for obscure underground music. However they are TOTALLY different individuals when it comes to personality types or creative process. For me, it's about the way he looks in the interviews where's he's more aloof, the fact that he resembles a Fi-dom at his most quiet. Anyway, in functions MBTI that quote would be Fe, but I personally would say it's more Extroversion than anything or at alest being so/sx. But writing a song for me, it never rang true. On drugs, once you started talking you never stopped - whether there was anybody with you or not. He also was obsessed with symbols and archetypes and used quite a lot of them in his work. '' gets to be typed as a J by default as in Bowie's case, or to be considered a Fi-dom in Dylan's case. "Fromhttps://www. Compare that to Andy Warhol (3w4) opinion on Los Angeles: "I love Los Angeles, and I love Hollywood. David Bowie, 1969 interview: "This country is crying out for a leader. They can write an entire story of their life, their family, their experience, their fears, their motivations, their quirks and mannerisms all within their Ni. Lana Del Rey, Jimi Hendrix, M. It deals with insecurity, it's about admitting his feelings in a very open way that is sheer Fe. " Another INFJ 4w5 (Bergman) who held that same philosophy. She's ESTP 3w4. "All through my youth, I would use bravado and device – costume and flamboyant behavior – in a desperate attempt to not be iced out of everything. I changed my vote that very same day; I'm that fast. He absorbs emotions from whoever he's with. It's been both mydoorwayofperceptionand the house that I live in. Ni analyzes patterns. No, sorry, I only meant about your last comment, I agree that you made some great points about why he's a Ne-dom. For them, it's a question that requires a lot of thought and time to decipher. Are you actually typing out the letters as if he is clearly introverted, intuitive, feeling, and judging. In term of Jungian types, he's somewhere between Ne and Ni. INFJ have inferior Se,which causes a fascination with Se, but when INFJ try to get into Se directly it requires lots of effort, think of Marlyin Manson, and his grotesque display of Se. Human rights of LGBT in the 70's, post-Cold War division of Germany, post-hippie depression, black equality, the list goes on. That would be doomed ^^ "It seems that he uses that program to aid his inspiration, if he really was a strong Intuitive type I think it have been quite easily for him to come up with all those word-associations without using that silly device to help him. If I would type the ultimate ''social chameleon'' it probably would be ENFx ennea 3 so/sx, and I assume Bowie would be somewhere close to this typing. But I wonder what makes him Fi/Te over Ti/Fe. Bowie has always been fascinated by randomness, cut up methods, his verbasizer shows this very well. Could you tell me more about that. The reason why his Ne is well-developed is because he has a 7-fix in his tritype. Of all the things to use as evidence for INFJ this one just seems like an argument against that type. com/151364531TBH, I feel as if this site tends to get INFJ-vote-happy when it comes to prominent people noted for being thoughtful and conceptual and can't help but suspect it's based on the type's statistically-recorded rarity. The way I determined this is by deconstructing the themes in his music. But if you look at social 4s, their music style has and will alway change. "The West is going to have a Hitler. Anyway, the reason is good you brought Dylan into conversation is because the same things about Bowie being an enigma applies just as well to Dylan. After that, he obfuscated himself in songs with multiple character perspectives, metaphors and symbolism. I think it's less what of the 16 types is he and more which ENxP is he. Doesn't make them any less of a Ni-dom though. Also, MBTI-wise, I don't feel like "Blackstar" is a good single example of anything overall, since it was at the very end of his life - he'd had plenty of time to develop all of his mind by the time he released that album, which someone like him certainly would have. ENXP for sure, I mean just look at him. I think here it's the difference between the ,,enigmatic'' perception types like Bowie or Dylan who were always enigmatic, contradictory and changing, and someone like Patti Smith which was more clear in her judgements and self-perception: Smith probably had a much more differentiated judging function even tough a P-leading type as well. Jung about introverted irrationals. It might be this [Eno puts his hands on his hips and gives an air of loucheness] or sometimes it was another kind of person [he buries his chin in his neck in a stiff manner]. com/2016/01/21/david-bowie-discerning-ni-dom/Yeah; INFJ, right. Even admitting that his fan-favorite characters Ziggy Stardust, Thin White Duke, et al are actually reinterpretations of Hitler. " Both Ni and Ti are left-brained analytical functions. On a more controversial note, I re-tough the MBTI function order in order to make it fit better with my personal observations, and use all 8 functions in a more logical arrangement, rather than holistic and simplified function axes. An INFJ could enter a completely foreign country, and within weeks, or even days, completely master their culture, and maybe even accent. They work together, and one just feeds off the other. Introverted intuitive types frequently will have complex visions or perspectives that they are unable to explain with clarity to others. Peter Gabriel still ENFP to me. It's somewherebetween the two. You could find very personal and deep lyrics from songs like Secret World, Blood of Eden where the Ni+Fe is quite obvious. I'm familiar with the man's work and peculiar personality, I had the pleasure of seing him live on the Reality tour, and was absolutely convinced by the exhbition David Bowie Is that he could not be anything but ENxP. High Fi has the ability to pin-point a certain emotion or instinct in themselves and then develop a character out of that or see the link between apparently unrelated kind of people. In a way it's almost a lost cause to try to determine which judging function these people mainly use (Bowie, Dylan, Lynch, Cave, Kafka, Argento) since what mainly characterized them as artists is that they mainly suppresed judging for the sake of intensifying their perception. He avoids making any value judgements, but rather tries to turn the interviewers questions upside down by making individualistic but ultimately detached statements. I didn't post these references earlier, frankly because it's very long. I believe it was good- the best way to fight an evil force is to caricature it. Agree with matejko, he was a true individualist artistic type. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle. Introverted Intuition:Ni users tend to go deeper into same idea and analyze it at depth. He avoids making any value judgements, but rather tries to turn the interviewers questions upside down by making individualistic but ultimately detached statements. To quote Carl Jung, on Introverted Intuitive dominants: "The peculiar nature of introverted intuition, when given the priority, also produces a peculiar type of man, the mystical dreamer and seer on the one hand, or the fantastical crank and artist on the other. Bowie ran off to Berlin to escape the sycophants of Los Angeles. Him and Peter Gabriel are nearly identical except that Gabriel is so/sp and Bowie is so/sx. Bowie has always been about trends, envisioning the future, see his interview with Jeremy Paxman about the internet. In this site you can find out which of the 16 types this character 'David Bowie' belongs to!. mysterymeat, you make good points on him being more of a Ni type than a Ne type, specially how it takes him him allot to write a song, which is more true for an introverted process. I can't say that life'spainsor more tragic episodes have been diminished because of it. I think it's that same evasion of talking about one's own feelings, that creates this misunderstanding where others stereotypically see INFJs as "mysterious", "otherwordly", and "elusive". And he was quite clear about what difference that would make to how this voice should be. Randomness, exploration of possibilities in a broad sense, extroversion, his methods of work prove Ne use all over the place. His songs are nowhere close to the cryptic nature of Bowie's catalog of music. David had a lot of shame related to being "himself", he didn't think he was that particularly interesting nor that he had social savvy, so he felt he needed to create characters and hide himself in them. I don't exactly lie, I change my mind all the time. Also, too many sheeples on this website. Extraverted Intuition:Ne users to tend to go broader by linking from one idea to another. I assume you type by functions right. The search for the Holy Grail. "Bowie's quote taken from this video interview:David Bowie: "I find that I'm a person who can take on the guises of different people that I meet. People mistakenly believe that because he's not exploring himself in his music, that makes him 3w4. "The Power of Ni". He seizes hold of new objects and new wayswith eager intensity, sometimes with extraordinary enthusiasm, only to abandon them cold-bloodedly, without regard and apparently without remembrance, as soon as their range becomes clearly defined and a promise of any considerable future development no longer clings to them. First, to answer why Bowie was an introvert, not an extrovert. ] If you thought about it long enough, you could pose the question: Did Antichrist Superstar create Marilyn Manson as a vehicle for its rise to power. A healthy 4 lets go of the belief that they are missing something that others have. ""Usually I avoid any kind of interaction if it will eventually result in more than myself and another person. "^ This is called Introjection by the way. He is ENxP, no doubt about it after seeing the expo "david bowie is". The fact that so much arguments for Ne were given on PD yet ISFP still leads in votes is quite baffling. Those are all INFP musicians and their stuff is great - But it's all largely the same. "Carl Jung: "There is no coming to consciousness without pain. So much of what he writes about is a social commentary about the times he was living in. Sure, the Ni type that makes his perception into a moral problem can be a J, but like Jung says, that's not the general case, the general case is the artist who confines himself at the level of perception, so a P type first and foremost. He then leaves one vision for his art for another (Ne-dom) but while at it, he embodies that particular vision in time (Fi). What I've said for years under various guises is that 'Watch Out, the West is going to have a Hitler. At work, INFJs may look like INTPs (laid back geniuses) and socially, they may resemble ENFPs (charismatic idealists) or ESFJs (social organizers). It strives to discover the essence of things and fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle. He said this about the album: "I remember looking out over these waves of people [who were coming to hear this record played live] and thinking, ‘I wonder how many Velvet Underground albums these people have in their record collections. Who was the black magician. If you enjoyed this entry, find out about the personality types of Music and Music Industry characters list.. I change my mind a lot. Bowie was showing how easily an audience would fall under the spell of a Hitler-figure. Instead he decided he would follow Iggy Pop on his "Lust for Life" tour and become Iggy Pop's touring keyboard player. That, combined with extraverted feeling and his average to high health levels is going to make him seem like he's not a 4, even though he actually is. To answer your above question, I don't see how you get Fi-dom and 3w4 from that video/quote. I don't understand why some people here think that any image type who changes a lot automatically makes them a Ne-valuing type. I honeslty think the "there's no message in my songs"/ISFP argument is a cliché. Their emotional landscape, their mood which is guiding those changes. Nope, I can't see Bowie as anything else but a Ne user, if not a Ne dom. Go on youtube and search Enneagram tritype 478 and you'll find a video that describes David Bowie's unique personality combination. Here you can explore of famous people and fictional characters.. This does not cause the end of the world for Ziggy. why not just david bowie. From what I can discern of Bowie's interviews this is the same theme, making him INFJ and not INFP or ENFP. Those of you questioning her Ni are in the high minority. Ziggy has been talking about this amazing spaceman who will be coming down to save the earth. "Waiting for the gift of Ni. became a little Hitler. Bob Dylan is still writing straightforward Fi-Se-Ni songs. If you had said that Ne was about exploring possibilities, then I would have agreed with you. Don Richard Riso states in his enneagram literature that 4s are identity-seekers(hence the change) and that from their lowest health level (9) until about the second-highest level (2) they are on a "search for self". "From Ian Cogdell's 'The Nine Dots': "The Jungian focus of this E-pattern is Introverted Intuition. A are all ISFPs and they're always playing with different sounds. It's a blister on the backside of humanity, really, whereas Detroit has real people energetically trying to survive. I'm glad Bowie is finally getting validation as an INFJ. I'm talking about the 9 health levels of 4. So I found it quite easy to write for the artists that I would create. A lot of people don't accept David Bowie as a 4w3 simply because they find him "too charming" to be a 4, but the reality is that 4w3 so/sx is the most charming, humorous, and sexually appealing of all type 4 stackings. and I think ENTP is more likely (how can a ISFP could be typed a 3 so clearly, it doesn't make sense. All sex and no romance was the problem. The so/sx instinct stacking in particular, regardless of enneatype, is described as being "attuned to pop culture and the latest trends". Politeness and curtoasy isn't really just a FJ thing. Lanois had to lock him down to finish the lyrics of one song. People are alwaysthrowing things at me that I've said and I say that I didn't mean anything. '"Edmonds: "When you first started doing the Ziggy Stardust character, before it got to the point where you. The idea of shapeshifting is present in the oldest forms oftotemismandshamanism, as well as the oldest extant literature andepic poems, including works such as theEpic of Gilgameshand theIliad, where the shapeshifting is usually induced by the act of adeity. He even says in an interview ,,I'm only Bob Dylan when I have to be Bob Dylan, the rest of the time I can just be myself. I'm not going to cater to you and a few other people raising ambiguity about her type in another forum. "His obsession with Hitler started very early in his career. Bowie seems to marvel at Iggy's spontaneity and quick mind. Nor do I think changing one's music style thorugh one's carier makes one a social type. In that same interview below, David Bowie said this about Los Angeles: "I went to Los Angeles and I lived there for a couple of years. What type is (was) this guy. They enjoy tinkering with ideas, perspectives, theories, visions, stories, symbols, and metaphors. This is something that good singer-songwriters understand. But now I understand the case to be the opposite. "Sure, ENFPs do like to change things up in the external world, but why would a type that values Introverted Feeling change personalities. "David Bowie, 1997 interview: "Looking for sustenance, looking for something outside of ourselves for sustenance, can only lead to depression, I think. Still, while I agree with Ni, that does not make him a J (and like I said, I no longer type by function stacks). Ok you've convinced me ISFP. Indeed he said in 72 « I could never work with a computer ». You don't seem to have a good grasp on what Ni is in cognitive theory. They don't shy away from sharing who they are. The starmen that he is talking about are called the infinites, and they are black-hole jumpers. I saw the National Front and it was obvious to me: There was a Nazi Party in England. How did MBTI arrived at the conclusion that such a person is J if all that matters for him/her is perception. html ''Sounds just like what I'd expect out of an ISFP 3w4''. Obviously I don't so what's the point. He was no politician. This is ground control to mayor Tom, me likey 2 ^_^He also wrote a song about Introverted Intuition. The use of the verbasizer is in no way different from the cut up technique he used (while recording under pressure with Queen for instance. "Material Girl", "Bad Girl", "Erotica", "Survival", "I'd Rather be Your Lover", "Inside Of Me", "Drowned World". Visconti also sees Heathen as the first moment in Bowie’s career when he adressed directly his feelings, in a very naive and childlike way (Afraid).
. To address the other part of your statement, Bowie's not a 3. I'm also more convinced of ENFP over my initial ENTP guess as time goes by. At his unhealthiest, his need to look unique was emphasized, but that changed later on. Although he was a complex individual, interested in many things (ENxPs are the most cultivated people I ever met), including Ni fileds (like I mentioned with The Man Who Sold The World), he was not a judger, had no real ethics, message etc and his intuition was not focussed, limited, introverted, even dare I say subjective. What I'm really looking for is someone to prove to me that Bowie valued Fi over Fe. ENFP 4w3 sx/so. Donald Trump is an INFJ. No one's been able to do that yet. I don't agree at all with him having ISFP traits, I think that whole ISFP thing is a joke considering that Bowie is the embodiment of Ne. In fact, they're both kinda infamous for this reason. " Ne users like novelty, imagination, randomness, etc. Because I'm quite cautious when it comes to the dichotomies. In the 1970s, Bowie was particularly unhappy with his manager Tony DeFries. Also, tqm Bonita ❤️Leave thephaxsi alone, fagotty. It has been announced that the world will end because of lack of natural resources. They never stuck to one thing, just like Bowie. " Documentary INFJ David Bowie - Five Years https://vimeo. That quote can equally apply to Dylan: ,,perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. David bowie looks like a fucking retard"In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. If you want to compare ENFP Bowie to someone who really has a similar career and is without a doubt INFJ, go see Peter Gabriel. Apparently that idea comes from Lenore Thomson:http://www. "Marilyn Manson has had the same issue as Bowie. I don't even take what I am seriously"; Ni-dom: "I always had a repulsive need to be something more than human. What I meant is that Ne supported by Fi has less concentration and may seem more superficiial than Ne supported by Ti. And it was depressing, because I didn’t know what they wanted. But look at what I unintentionally found tonight, what a Ni expert says, who also agrees Bowie is INFJ: "David Bowie: Discerning Ni-dom" https://charitysplace. Where does he show exploring it with depth. I stil can see him as a very conceptual ENFP, maybe in the range of a Jim Morrison or in a way John Lennon might have been, the trouble is that I sometimes spot Ti in his behaviour. Keep reading to learn more about what goes into your Myers-Briggs personality type—and maybe discover what yours is.. Well, admiring someone's spontaneity doesn't mean one isn't spontaneous himself, just that the other person outdoes him. Actors play someone else, I play myself. I'm still very unsure wether Bowie is ENTP or ENFP. Trent Reznor said of Bowie: "[David] seems to have not only created one larger than life identity, but then while [that identity] was getting bigger, threw it out and created another one, threw that out, and created another one. I see that some people still believe he's 3w4 over 4w3, so I'll make my case for 4w3. David Bowie has said countless times how Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane, Halloween Jack, The Thin White Duke, Nathan Adler, or anything other character he's created are nowhere close to his "true" self. Also the stuff about ''internet is rebellion. Also, this isn't an attempt to pose this as evidence or backing so much as making a comment, but I saw someone saying somewhere that "He was really good at being David Bowie, but he didn't really know who David Jones was" - does seem like a comment someone'd make about the life and career of a 3w4. They don't have a carein the world and are of no possible use to us. So have other famous INFJs (Gary Oldman, etc) declared that they have much preferred playing characters rather than being themselves because they loathed themselves too much. I've always found that I collect. " It's Ni to the bone and no one seems to question it with her. During the Diamond Dogs era he recorded a whole concert with the musicians on the left of the stage not hearing the musicians on the right. I'm an awful liar. While the musicians jammed on the Outside sessions, he painted and listened to them. You are in the best place to test MBTI and learn what type David Bowie likely is!. That's generally how it is for Ni types. I lived a lot in my imagination. They arrive somewhere in Greenwich Village. I had no problem writing something for Iggy Pop, or working with Lou Reed, or writing for Mott the Hoople -- I can get into their mood and what they want to do. Dylan and Bowie left themselves at the whims of their own imagination and perceptions of things and where it lead them. "David Bowie, 2002 interview: "I was a kid that loved being in my room reading books and entertaining ideas. He wrote the song "The Supermen" which is based on Nietzsche's Ubermensch. I thought, Fuck that. They just seem Perception leading Perceptive types. A beautiful story on the writing of under pressure, told by Brian May (most probably ISFJ, so inferior Ne) which further indicates Bowie was a Ne dom. In fact, the MBTI ISTJ and ISFJ are clearly Te and Fe Jungian types first and foremost, not introverted irrationals. He even says in an interview ,,I'm only Bob Dylan when I have to be Bob Dylan, the rest of the time I can just be myself. For me, he's up there with Bryan Ferry"; and HOLY SHITTTT. When I think fo Bowie, I associate him with people like Dali, Fellini, Welles, an the more I look the more I consider ENFP over ENTP, but ISFP I can't see. Se is very conceptual with work that they're passionate about as they almost always have different projects going on. It was a real effort to become a social animal. Any interview (when he's not on cocaine) shows a man obsessed with future possibilities and abstract thoughts. The name itself refers to someone with the ability of adjusting with ease toward external condition and behavior, that is extroverted characteristics, so while an INFJ may be the most ''social chameleon''-like of the introverts, several extroverted types would still outclass it. Talking about his work with Trent Reznor: "Trent is a minimalist in the way that he structures his material, my stuff tends to be over layered and conceptual". v=lFIDXXDsxAo 9s and 4s aren't connected in anyway. I've yet to see a clear defense for ISFP-Bowie. I want to be a superhuman", "People are so fucking dumb"; visionary Ni-dom: "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming", "The moment you know you know you know"; adoration towards Fi-doms: "I rate Morrissey (Steven Patrick Morrissey) as one of the best lyricists in Britain. That's what being an intuitive is all about. You're right to correct my use of the word "warm". Its nostalgic quality is very unusual for Bowie, exploring his inferior Si when facing death. You are using a distracting tactic. Dylan always tried to keep a sense of mystery and hide himself behind contradictory statements, most likely because his views on things and of himself was never very clear. It's because Celebrity Types has him as ISFP, I think. I really don't know how someone could be more N than this. Let's look at self-preservation 4s for a second to compare. "@Schmendrick You mentioned that when Bowie created Blackstar at the end of his life when his functions were all developed. Confining oneself to the perceptive character of intuition; perception is his principal problem. What is the best option for the MBTI type of David Bowie? What about enneagram and other personality types?. When I started dressing for the part and acting it out onstage, the edges of definition between myself and the character became blurry. He wasn’t the kind of guy that went into a club and said, 'Look at me, look at me, look at me. I felt very puny as a human. I didn’t really need company particularly. What Bowie is describing is the absorption of others' personalities. But most important, you comment makes it like you can see Bowie as INFJ too :DQuoting songs isn't relevant. It's a city I really detest. It's not an immediate, spontaneous thing like it is for Ne users. In the song, he writes about the feelings and perspectives of two different characters. And it's only because what is inside is so vulnerable that the shell has to be so hard. The man had no bank acount and his manager paid for the things he wanted until the late 70's, which would be pretty weird for an auxiliary Se (the function of the real). Just look at some of his interviews or read about what people close to him thought of him. I really feel like where I'm at now is where there's no line between what's on the album and what's in reality. Also when you talk about valuing functions, do you mean in the Socionics sense. Also, the poster says that Cumbercatch and Mulligan, recognized INFJs aren't, so he's probably biased in his view of what INFJs are like, and probably gives Ni-doms more credit than Ne-dom when it comes to abstraction. The two singers could not hear each other while performing). I know I write a lot of comments, so please bear with me. In the mid to late 1970's, he told interviewers about his obsession with writing characters for his songs that are based on Adolf Hitler. It was a real effort to become a social animal. Sure you can link his interest in Nietzsche, Crowley, Jung, Mishima etc to Ni. You're right about inferior Si. Bowie is not authentic but very aware of the use of his image, has a flair for the dramatic and business in a detached way. He considers his creations to be acting roles with a combination of many external influences. 3s and 4s could both distance themselves from and voice disapproval of a city culture or lifestyle they find un-classy, or feel estranged from other people in general. His lyrics explore deep emotional realms, intimacy, and show a desire to merge with the one, a sense of being though an idealized other. This site is broken. To the same degree as they fail to understand themselves -- because they very largely lack judgment -- they are also powerless to understand why they are so constantly undervalued by public opinion. Ah ah ah, guess all the posts down there are no good for you. The end comes when the infinites arrive. It's good you brought Bob Dylan into discussion, who btw I don't see as ISFP 4 but IxTP 4. I'll change my vote to INFP 4w3 for Bowie, tough I still think ambiverted fits him best, because I can't see how someone who ,,stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. "Bowie: "It did snowball itself. ISFP to the max. When a 4 reaches the highest health level, they are able to let go of their forced uniqueness and attachment to their self-image. In Berlin, he paired up with Brian Eno to create the experimental album "Low" which is one of his most lyrically depressing albums cast over upbeat experimental sound. Gabriel adresses his feelings directly, is quite expressive. I'm not buying ISFP. Ron Hubbard, Anton LaVey, Charles Manson, Osho) were ENxPs. His quotes are very INFJ (aka WTF). My comment prior to this was more re: the light oversimplification tends to put 3s in in general than anything else, for the record, but re: Bowie, I'm not actually trying to fight your typings, for what it's worth. I think you're confusing the word "exploring" with Ne. So I was never unaware as my strength as an interpretative performer. Ziggy is advised in a dream by the infinites to write the coming of a starman, so he writes "Starman," which is the first news of hope that the people have heard. He was also very concern with the internet, from the start, and has an undestranding of technology that fits ENTP better than ENFP. "David Bowie, 1976 interview: "I think we are due for a revival of God awareness. For more examples of Bowie's Ni, allanyone has to do is look at his creations to see the constant pattern in his work. v=H7Sgq0XoxPw. One character who has fame and success which has left her very lonely, and another character who is a "nobody" and who is envious of others' success and wishes he could have it. Taken from Enneagram Institute:"In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. I think he is ENFP, and people only judge his characters or personas and don’t type David Jones but more of Ziggy or Thin White Duke. Those original shamans have mutated into the entertainer. Towards the end, Bowie became comfortable with who he was. This is a very similar process to Sufjan Stevens, also INFJ. Vincent, who followed a similar path, is an so/sx 4 who went from alt rock to more electronic experimentation. A very early example, I suppose, is Space Oddity. mysterymeat are you the admin changing our votes to INFJ. 3w4 sx/so seems possible because its almost his song and appearance are almost equal. It's all there, presented in their creative work. That song is yet another way. People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul. v=rgneB1Gy9TwDavid Bowie's advice to young upcoming artists: http://www. All those songs are about herself using plenty of first-person pronouns. Tilda Swinton (INFJ) has this to say about Bowie, who she was good friends with: "I'm from the same planet as David Bowie. For this reason and a lot of others, INFJs are notoriously difficult to type. Are you talking about the J/P dichotomy when you say Je/Pe doms. In fact, the artists who stay the same are the suspicious ones to me speaking as a sp/sx; they either stay the same because they don't wanna loose their fans or they lack enough creativity to evolve. The human bond was rarely there — another drugs spin-off. Really, I'm a very one track person. I've yet to see a clear defense for Ne-Bowie. But I find it extremely hard to write for me. An so/sx is an embracer of change in order to keep up with the changes in culture and the latest trends. The INFJ can invent an character within their Ni-Fe. Before his death, in his song Blackstar, he once again plays the role of a preacher. I've switched my vote from ENFP to INFJ for Bowie. I'd say an extrovert would be better at being a social chameleon than any introverted type, so not sure way it's a trait associated with an introverted type, rather than extroverted type. So I don't see your logic in how or why you'd think that makes Bowie 3w4 and Fi-valuing. If an artist, he reveals extraordinary, remote things in his art, which in iridescent profusion embrace both the significant and the banal, the lovely and the grotesque, the whimsical and the sublime. His feelings depend on external sources. When I heard someone say something intelligent, I used it later as if it were my own. Ni-dom is hollistic, they stick to whatever vision they have of their art, and while it changes, it changes by becoming more complex, not by jumping from one thing to another. About Peter Gabriel being INFJ: I'm very open to the idea. Change my vote to INFJ. It was very important to him to manage. He's a Ni-dom with a well-developed Ne. I just don't feel comfortable with more than two people. Wanting to entertain, Fe: "I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring"; non existant Fi: "I'm always amazed that people take what I say seriously. While I definitely associate Cornell or Dylan with Ni, there is no way IMO that Bowie is anything else than a strong Ne user. v=LwTFW4kfHl4 This interview is really revealing about what Idlebody talked about. His self-referential humour and constant joking is also very Ne. and seemingly skipping from genre to genre and style to style, fearlessly. That's what Ziggy was. I thought ENTP for a long time, because of his way of being detached and quite insensitive at times. So Bowie being cold and aloof, building walls between him and his musicians on tours, and less of a textbook idealist led me to believe he was ENTP before I switched to ENFP. Gabriel always find a diversion not to finish a record. I tried real hard to see him as an ENFP, but the more I looked at it the more cerebral and detached he seemed to me. ENFPs are many things, but the last thing I'd call them are "enigmas". "As with all introverts, INFJs’ and INTJs’ first order of business is an internal one. He was an artist who took a great deal of risk. He was an ogre for me. On the other hand, here are the characteristics of introverted feeling: - seek to understand their own behaviors, motivations, desires, and beliefs - are ruled by their own subjective and personal values - focus on how behaviors and motivations of others are the same or different than their own - focus on being true to who they are. Nor do I think changing one's music style thorugh one's carier makes one a social type. Noel Fielding (Ne with Fi): "I have never thought of myself as an actor, though I play about 500 different characters in the show. I think I've made some solid points in this thread. I’d like my death to be as interesting as my life has been and will be. It's really isn't anything scientifically established, so no reason to cling to it. Bowie developped his introverted side in the second half of his life. This place is so ready to be picked up by anybody who has a strong enough personality to lead. "David Bowie, 1993 interview: "All the great mystic religions put strong emphasis on the redeeming spiritual qualities of sex. To get back on track - what function is supposed to be more likely to explore so many ideas that they can describe this approach as "collecting ideas". ) but I won't try to convince anyone artists with feelings don't have to be FPs. Even if not directly tested, public voting can provide good accuracy regarding David Bowie Myers-Briggs and personality type!. Jim Morrison was another ENFP with an effortless rock-star persona. If anything, that just puts the last nail in the idea that he could be anything like ISFP. INFPs, like most introverts, are quiet and reserved. They prefer not to talk about themselves.. "David Bowie: "Musichas given me over 40 years of extraordinary experiences. I also find you can also see a bit Bowie's Fe on display there when, before answering the question, he asks Iggy not once but twice if it's ok for him to answer on Iggy's behalf. ENTPs I know are the opposite, their Fe making them warmer. And I've always seemed to just collect personalities, ideas. And I’ve always just seemed to COLLECT PERSONALITIES, ideas. When you are a Fe-valuing type, you mirror and adjust your personality to the person you are in contact with. He also says « I'm not a liar, I just keep on changing my mind ». I don’t get how you can see Bowie as a J type. There are several instances of him talking about these subjects in reference to his songwriting. I just want to make my case as to why he's 4w3 instead of 3w4. He wrote this song before he became famous. And this idea of Ni being connected to the idea of left-brained-ness is a new one to me. I think you're wrong. EON, I'd be curious to know what you think of Bowie's personality in this video here where he describes his friend Iggy Pop's songwriting process compared to his own. This Is Fascism' and 'Bowie's A Nazi' and all of a sudden I was too far in. I think it screams inferior Si. As opposed to Dylan or someone like Neil Young who are most probably ISFP, Bowie never knows what he wants for a record. I don’t think anyone knew him. I'm pretty sure Ingmar Bergman is INFP. "I lived a lot in my imagination. Tony DeFries did all that he could to keep "Low" from being released, but Bowie managed to have it released anyway. It's Enneagram 4 type's defense mechanism. '' The same way it can be applied to David Lynch, Nick Cave, Franz Kafka or Dario Argento. It's confusing. I can't help but think he's the same type as me; he's much too similar. In fact, they're both kinda infamous for this reason. I took a look at my thoughts, my appearance, my expressions, my mannerisms and idiosyncrasies and didn't like them. He never gets into a studio with songs already written, he's looking for a meaningful acccident (just like someone like Robert Altman would). Fi in the dominant positions asks that an ego be constructed which creates some sort of a moral standard or code in order to quickly deal with and in a sense rationalize the various emotional reactions that occur to separate experiences. The MBTI questionnaire sorts people into one of 16 different personality types.. (Albeit it'd come from a different place in a 3 than in a 4. Always moving in a very dynamic way. Both N-dominants are good at seeing possibilities in things and going into abstractions. ,,The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. You can read more details about the so/sx stacking here. In case anyone doesn't know what Bowie means by "one-track person", it's someone who has a one-track mind. In an interview with Stevens he mentions that he usually takes from his own experience as a starting point and speaks of characters from there. Whether or not it was a good thing that I did, I don't know. In Bowie's case, however, it seems he starts with an idea, such as the idea of isolation, and then he pushes himself into a position where he must experience that or creates a character who must experience it and by proxy, understanding how he abstractly constructs their psyche feels their reeling and their emotion. I don't understand the ENTP votes. I really can't imagine an ISFP talking like him in interviews. This marks an extremely uncanny ability that you INFJ folk have. With your Ni vs Ne thing though, I wonder: how deep did Bowie actually analyze this concept. For INFJs, their Ni perceives through Fe and Se. Introverted intuition reflects on patterns, relationships, symbols, meanings, and perspectives on matters from complex phenomena to magical connections to practical problems. that sounds very Un-ISFP like. Having flair, seing trends, possibilities is Ne not Ni. Thom Yorke, an so/sp 4, went from 90's alt rock to experimental electronic music. In fact, this is clearly a discussion that takes place between two NPs, tough Burroughs is more introverted. "Peter Gabriel and Bowie do share similarities when it comes to seeing their work from the outside. I really want to use it. His chameleon nature is actually incredibly Jungian. Ne explores potential, it explores "what is possible". ’ I suddenly felt very apart from my audience. He’d know who the person singing it was, and their attitude. I was just looking for some answers. The interviewer asks him if he's lonely and alienated, he says that his characters are lonely and alienated. She does not have issues writing songs about herself. It's more obvious when you compare the Jungian Si type and the MBTI ISxJ, they're completely different. Okay, that kind of obsession would fit how a lot of people look at Ni, although it'd be more like Ji in Jung-based functions. Bowie was quite never emotional about his music on the other hand. Se doesn't stay in one place. Trent Reznor goes onto say that creating music is also a business, and that Trent himself was afraid at times of not being able to pay rent if he decided to change his music. Also, Fi because IMO he really embodies his art. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. INFJs for example, collect information from their intuition, but also from their Se environment which gets filtered through their Ti before their Ni analyzes it. Or we can even look at the sexual 4s. " To give you an idea of the responses given by other INFJs in that topic:"Only all the time. He is this way all the time, and is SO Ne that he uses this "silly device" to come up with things he himself wouldn't have thought of, that's how out of the box he is. Read his Proust questionnaire, pure Ne humour. I did pay attention Scotty but I'm not going to do so in another forum. Confining oneself to the perceptive character of intuition; perception is his principal problem. I'm sure he's a 3w4 as well, which correlates more often with ENxP than ISFP. Without Fe and Se to collect external information, their Ni would have nothing to analyze. Everybody can have lonely feelings and explore them through songwriting. He was about 24 years old when he wrote it. com:"The Many Faces of INFJ -- Subtype: The Method ActorOh the power of the persona, when you project an image, people will create your identity based on that image, regardless of what is actually going on in your head. Who was the magus. David Bowie: "There are several things on this album that lead front other things I've done. There's a lot because, well, this covers several decades of Bowie's interviews and creative work. If you think that Fi writes only about themselves or only care about self-expression, you miss a big part of what they are. I don't know if you actually watched the first video I linked, it doesn't seem like you did because right after Bowie comments on how spontaneous and quick Iggy is with writing songs, Bowie then compares Iggy's process to his own saying how he's the opposite -- that for him it "takes months just to write one word". Why because he's artistic. If not an artist, he is frequently an unappreciated genius, a great man 'gone wrong', a sort of wise simpleton, a figure for 'psychological' novels. He wrote the song "The Supermen" which is based on Nietzsche's Ubermensch. If you listen to Bob Dylan or Lana del Rey, you'll get some pretty straightforward Fi-Se-Ni songs about answers blowin in the wind or finding oneself on the open road. 3s like Madonna and Ricky Martin have very rarely veered away from their pop sound, which has proven to be successful for them, because veering away into more experimental music would mean the risk of losing their success. It's part of their adaptive social ability to be a student of culture. com/music/news/beat-godfather-meets-glitter-mainman-19740228. He strives for randomness. Might need to right click and enlarge to read the subtitles: David Bowie:"I'm not a great singer, but I can interpret the song which I don't think is quite the same as singing it. Introverted intuition typically creates a unique vision and arrives at unique insights about things, phenomena, or people. Earlier in his life, from what I gather, he was definitely oriented toward the senses (he seems to have been a visual person as much as an auditory one - he said that when he was young, he wanted to be either a musician or a painter, and he ended up actually being both though he was obviously much more famous for the former; and there's a lot out there about his pre-finally-falling-in-love-with-Iman sexcapades), and though he /was/ good at being a provocateur and was interested in chasing fame, it seems to me to have come from a more Fi-ish place than a Fe-ish one - a raw desire to make more of himself and end up in a position to throw himself all into his chosen line of work, namely the arts, for lack of better phrasing. The 3s are good at being able to know which things they do that garner the most amount of positive attention and will continue on that path to achieve the very best. When Johnny Depp (4w3) transforms himself into Jack Sparrow or Mad Hatter for his roles, is he being untrue to himself for fame/success. INFJ confirmed. The way he changes his colours is not so much an expression of the self, but it also his way of holding up a mirror to the world, showing everyone what being a human really means. Her identity, feelings, and values are easily identifiable in her music and her memoirs. Adolf Hitler was one of the first rock stars. Anyway, I guess you realize that several of us abandoned function stacks. What does it mean that Se is subordinated to Ne. His explorations were very sensual. In fact, that's the whole point of ,,No Direction Home'' by Martin Scorsese, there is no Bob Dylan the person, just the name under which the many faces of the same artist are brought together. He was a media artist himself. But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. When I saw a quality in someone that I liked, I took it. I could buy some function magic argument where the mythical Ni superpowers are something that he possesses but there is no way you can really say he is a "judger", nor can you for Annie Clark, who multiple people are questioning about her "Ni" which you seem to just not pay attention to. I will agreed he did display the persona of an INFJ in his career. Same goes for Grimes and Kanye West. What that post manages to prove is that Bowie is N-dom. Bowie is Ne incarnate and one of the most intuitive musicians of his time. More like the power of cock. CelebrityTypes strikes again with crap typings - this guy is like the definition of ENFP. Se is fluid and constantly moving. Sure, the Ni type that makes his perception into a moral problem can be a J, but like Jung says, that's not the general case, the general case is the artist who confines himself at the level of perception, so a P type first and foremost. The same thing with the need for change that characterizes Bowie. To say that only Ne-valuing types explore ideas is a bit ignorant to say the least. Dylan and Bowie left themselves at the whims of their own imagination and perceptions of things and where it lead them. Figures whom are highly regarded (though still debated) Ni-doms. Still, while I agree with Ni, that does not make him a J (and like I said, I no longer type by function stacks). And they tear him to pieces onstage during the song "Rock and Roll Suicide. David Bowie, in 1976: "I’ve now decided that my death should be very precious. In the mid to late 1970's, he told interviewers about his obsession with writing characters for his songs that are based on Adolf Hitler. He created Ziggy, a new-age preacher character with a messiah complex. His "dreamy" qualities came from his tertiary Ni. I decided to do them in disguise so that I didn't have to actually go through the humiliation of going onstage and being myself. The time is five years to go before the end of the earth. All that energy just ends up as sex. Gaga's alter egos have little to no biography or backstory. I think here it's the difference between the ,,enigmatic'' perception types like Bowie or Dylan who were always enigmatic, contradictory and changing, and someone like Patti Smith which was more clear in her judgements and self-perception: Smith probably had a much more differentiated judging function even tough a P-leading type as well. Gabriel went as far as you can go in terms of exploring the depth of feelings, very much in the way Jung did with his own psyche. Patti Smith is an ENFP 4w5 sx/so and her music has stayed folk/rock. really really ENFP "exploration" of universes, of new stuff, always looking for something new, he feels what can be possible, tries and manages. It's even more obvious when Jung recapitulates the introverted irrational types and describes them in ways that are almost the opposite of the extroverted judging types and the least J overall of the types. I'm more just probing out of curiosity. " Tbh idles quotes are almost having me lean that way but INFP definitely seems likely as well. "Taken from Cultural Disasters' article "The Elusive INFJ":"INFJs Are Not Who You Think They AreThey’re social chameleons, like Mystique from X-Men, they can observe and take on the shape and form (behaviors and mannerisms) of any other type. It's all wrapped up in one of those stereotypical 'Johnny' songs: Johnny does this, Johnny does that — in this particular one he's hauled up as the most mundane, philistine elements of what everybody hates about America. " A 3 would enjoy that fabricated lifestyle, but a 4 would distance themselves from it. "And you asked how an introverted type could be mistaken for a "social chameleon", I direct you to one of many topics on the INFJ subreddit, this one titled "Does socializing ever feel like acting for you. He talks about how his stage persona is a construct that doesn't really reflect who he actually is. It a characteristic of someone who feels entraped by consistency; the anthises of an IxxJ who's a person that naturally values both internal (I) and external consistency (J). People like him and Annie Clark I like to lable "Nz" types because they flip back and forth in terms of where their intuition is directed. ” That's Enneagram 4 elitism right there. " Oh, EON, I just thought of one more thing in relation to what you said about how Ne likes to change things up and not stay with things for too long. I really can't imagine an ISFP talking like him in interviews. I don't think he's IEI but at least I can see that making more sense in Socionics than the idea of being FJ in MBTI. To me it sounds more like ''I see him ISFP no matter what, so any qoute you say, I'll just say it's ISFP''. I found that in real life ENFPs are often more selfish, self-centered than ENTPs, who themselves are quite warm and considerate towards their close ones. ENFPs 3 are not as frequent as ENTPs, but they are not that rare either. That said, I might just be reacting to buzzwords and I do understand arguments for Bowie as a 3 and as a 4 both, though I still personally cast my vote for 3 - I just wanted to get that bee out of my bonnet. She hasn't attempted to diverge away from that. (Ex)Fan of Brian Molko and Arcade Fire, both NF. He later adapted this into It's No Game on Scary Monsters: https://www. Extraverted feeling characteristics: - seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires, and beliefs - focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations - are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other - seek to objectively understand the feelings of others. When I wrote the thing, I was so unlike Ziggy Stardust. ' I've said it in a thousand different ways. Why is that the ''social chameleon'' role has been asigned to an introverted type. See here for Levels of Development for type 4. But that is it. I think it's close but his comfort with letting musicians in the studio do their own thing and lack of control in terms of musicianship seems quite Fe. I didn't really have the nerve to sing my songs on stage, and nobody else was doing them. Leonard Cohen is a 4w5 sp/so and his music has more or less stayed bluesy/folk music. Until he met Iman, Bowie suffered from terrible shyness since childhood. Bowie has a background in theatre and mime, so his approach to music is in a very similar way. Enneagram 4 types are all about "change", regardless of their functions. He didn't do press or publicity for Low, he didn't even have a tour for it. the quotes confirmed it. I never claimed Bowie is 3 tough, just that the ''social chameleon'' could be more likely a 3 than a 4. EON, thank you for taking the time to respond. Just my general Bowie knowledge and some random quotes made me realize he's INFJ. David Bowie, 1993 interview: "I was interested in the symbols of the Nazis. '' gets to be typed as a J by default as in Bowie's case, or to be considered a Fi-dom in Dylan's case. It's good you brought Bob Dylan into discussion, who btw I don't see as ISFP 4 but IxTP 4. Also, think what Bowie's career is all about: it's constant change and re-invention. its vast potential is untapped'' could be Ni, but it can also be Ne: look how many possibilities this internet thing offer. One fine example of this is one of his earliest songs from his first self-titled album called "The Maid of Bond Street". For example, Patti Smith's never been an enigma. And saying Bowie is darker than Gabriel is nonsense. They say they want freedom, but when they get the chance, they pass up Nietzsche and choose Hitler because he would march into a room and music and lights would come on at strategic moments. And, boy, when he hit that stage, he worked an audience. So much experimentalism in fact that even iconoclastic 5w4 artists like Scott Walker and Trent Reznor praised him for his fearlessness. I don't see how anyone can get xNTP for Marilyn Manson, he is archetypal INFJ:In a 1997 Rolling Stone interview, Marilyn Manson stated "Sometimes I wonder if I'm a character being written, or if I'm writing myself. ENFP are: Ne-Fi-Fe-Se-Ni-Te-Ti-Si. The face of America that we have to put up with is the McDonalds/Disney/Coke face, this really homogenous, bland cultural invasion that sweeps over us — which is unfortunate, because the aspects of America that are really magical to us are the things it seems to reject, likeblack magic, or the Beat poets: there's an incredibly strong individuality about America that gets glossed over by the corporate invasion. My vote keeps changing too. His songwriting style is not at all straightforward like an ISFP's songwriting. Brian Eno: "David would have an identity in mind. I'm a collector. Their dominant function, Introverted Intuition (Ni), serves as the veritable foundation for this inner playhouse. Through introverted intuition he manages to link the humanistic qualities between these two seemingly unrelated characters. " When his music career took off, he resorted to using drugs and alcohol as a crutch to deal with that shyness and social anxiety. "David Bowie, 1995 interview: "I was very aware of the idea of androgyny or an unknown gender being attached to most priesthoods in the East. I don't see how his fascination with cult leaders and Hitler figures rules out NP types, after all a lot of famous spiritual or "cult" leaders in recent history (L. See Daniel Lanois talking about Gabriel’s indecisive character in the making of So. Well, that goes totally against Fi-dom in MBTI functions. You may even think an INFJ isyourtype, since they like to frequently use the social tool called ‘mirroring’, which is basically observing and copying your mannerisms in order to gain rapport with you. God knows what it is looking for, but if it's not careful it's going to end up with a Hitler. "David Bowie, 1993 interview: "My other fascination with the Nazis was their search for the Holy Grail. His approach is VERY different to Lady Gaga. I had this religious fervour. When really it's their exploration and discovery of the behavioral patterns and feelings of others that helps an INFJ discover their inner self. This will be my last comment on Bowie's type. Even admitting that his fan-favorite characters Ziggy Stardust, Thin White Duke, et al are actually reinterpretations of Hitler. Anyway, the reason is good you brought Dylan into conversation is because the same things about Bowie being an enigma applies just as well to Dylan. [laughs] Even though it's me doing it. I can switch accents within seconds of meeting somebody -- I can adopt their accent. I'll change my vote to INFP 4w3 for Bowie, tough I still think ambiverted fits him best, because I can't see how someone who ,,stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. But from the 90's he supported download and was deeply interested in the internet revolution. And being a "one-track person" seems to conflict with being an idea collector. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. Anyway Se/Ni over Ne dom for Bowie does not make any sense. Look at Madonna for instance. ISFP is a stupid typing due to CT. David Bowie, 1999 interview: "I was quite content spending days without saying a word to anybody, quite alone, getting on with my own obsessive thing, whatever that happened to be at the time. I’m a collector. Then when the time comes, then can channel that character into their Fe and Se to perfectly embody that role, in ways that can be so nuanced that you might not even know you are looking at the same person. The genesis of the idea actually comes from his song Somebody Up There Likes Me, Bowie states: 'One of the most interesting songs on the new album is "Somebody Up There Likes Me," a warning about the danger of hero worship. "David Bowie: "As an adolescent, I was painfully shy, withdrawn. But I’m open for debate. They just seem Perception leading Perceptive types. This is usually achieved through an inherent ability of a mythological creature, divine intervention, or the use of magic. Dylan always tried to keep a sense of mystery and hide himself behind contradictory statements, most likely because his views on things and of himself was never very clear. So they latch onto itimmediately. When the infinites arrive, they take bits of Ziggy to make themselves real because in theiroriginal state they are anti-matter and cannot exist on our world. He was certainly ambiverted as many ENFPs and INFJs can be, but he was an introvert with a social instinct which made him seem more outgoing and extroverted than he actually was.
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