David Bowie Myers-Brigs type - MBTI, enneagram and personality type info
""Inmythology,folkloreandspeculative fiction,shapeshiftingis the ability of a being or creature to completely transform its physical form or shape. "His obsession with Hitler started very early in his career. If someone made a good case for it, maybe then I'd be able to get behind him being ENFP. But writing a song for me, it never rang true. Lana Del Rey, Jimi Hendrix, M. "I was a kid that loved being in my room reading books and entertaining ideas," Bowie recalls. That's what Bowie is all about. He later adapted this into It's No Game on Scary Monsters: https://www. The use of the verbasizer is in no way different from the cut up technique he used (while recording under pressure with Queen for instance. And that became obsessive with me. A very early example, I suppose, is Space Oddity. " When his music career took off, he resorted to using drugs and alcohol as a crutch to deal with that shyness and social anxiety. His quotes are very INFJ (aka WTF). Ne is his dominant function, his worldview, his driving force. Who was the magus. I'd say an extrovert would be better at being a social chameleon than any introverted type, so not sure way it's a trait associated with an introverted type, rather than extroverted type. Type 3 elitism is feeling more rich, successful, and famous than others. When the infinites arrive, they take bits of Ziggy to make themselves real because in theiroriginal state they are anti-matter and cannot exist on our world. But most important, you comment makes it like you can see Bowie as INFJ too :DQuoting songs isn't relevant. I know I write a lot of comments, so please bear with me. ISFP to the max. What I'm really looking for is someone to prove to me that Bowie valued Fi over Fe. To those of you who think he's 3w4, I advise you to go to listen to Bowie's album "Outside" and then come back and tell me if you still believe he's a 3. To the same degree as they fail to understand themselves -- because they very largely lack judgment -- they are also powerless to understand why they are so constantly undervalued by public opinion. It's not an immediate, spontaneous thing like it is for Ne users. "And you asked how an introverted type could be mistaken for a "social chameleon", I direct you to one of many topics on the INFJ subreddit, this one titled "Does socializing ever feel like acting for you. ,,The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. David bowie looks like a fucking retard"In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. I'm kind of peeved with 3-ishness being reduced to association with fabrication, artifice, and always being able to conveniently blend in anywhere as opposed to 4's authenticity and integrity when, from my understanding, it's more that 3ishness (3w4ishness, at least) is more about trying to distinguish oneself through actions and skillsets and always trying to become "more" as opposed to a 4ish trying to get to the bottom of and tap into an essence that's more personal. This is something that good singer-songwriters understand. In my view, ENFP have actually more Se than INFJ. Se is fluid and constantly moving. Tony Visconti tells us that Where are we now is very far from Bowie’s nature. "I lived a lot in my imagination. "Fromhttps://www. His self-referential humour and constant joking is also very Ne. He was very specific about who he was interested in. Bowie was showing how easily an audience would fall under the spell of a Hitler-figure. "David Bowie, 1993 interview: "All the great mystic religions put strong emphasis on the redeeming spiritual qualities of sex. v=rgneB1Gy9TwDavid Bowie's advice to young upcoming artists: http://www. '"Edmonds: "When you first started doing the Ziggy Stardust character, before it got to the point where you. I know ISFPs can be creative, but shit i just don't see any ISFP doing what he didCan't say about him but I was introduce to him Labyrinth with the iconic song Magic Dance. He wrote this song when he was only sixteen years old which he then later got recorded when he was 23. He even says in an interview ,,I'm only Bob Dylan when I have to be Bob Dylan, the rest of the time I can just be myself. I really feel like where I'm at now is where there's no line between what's on the album and what's in reality. He was a very cultivated and curious individual, "move to one thing to another when bored with the other". I've yet to see a clear defense for Ne-Bowie. He is this way all the time, and is SO Ne that he uses this "silly device" to come up with things he himself wouldn't have thought of, that's how out of the box he is. Nope, I can't see Bowie as anything else but a Ne user, if not a Ne dom. Nothing much left to say. Go on youtube and search Enneagram tritype 478 and you'll find a video that describes David Bowie's unique personality combination. It was this Arthurian need, this search for a mythological link with God. Tilda Swinton (INFJ) has this to say about Bowie, who she was good friends with: "I'm from the same planet as David Bowie. If you had said that Ne was about exploring possibilities, then I would have agreed with you. became a little Hitler. INFJ 4s chameleon themselves in characters/personas so as to protect their vulnerable, highly sensitive nature. I'm sure he's a 3w4 as well, which correlates more often with ENxP than ISFP. In term of Jungian types, he's somewhere between Ne and Ni. A are all ISFPs and they're always playing with different sounds. I can't help but think he's the same type as me; he's much too similar. Might need to right click and enlarge to read the subtitles: David Bowie:"I'm not a great singer, but I can interpret the song which I don't think is quite the same as singing it. Vincent, who followed a similar path, is an so/sx 4 who went from alt rock to more electronic experimentation. I tried real hard to see him as an ENFP, but the more I looked at it the more cerebral and detached he seemed to me. In a way it's almost a lost cause to try to determine which judging function these people mainly use (Bowie, Dylan, Lynch, Cave, Kafka, Argento) since what mainly characterized them as artists is that they mainly suppresed judging for the sake of intensifying their perception. I thought, Fuck that. They both process through analysis. I change my mind a lot. Where does he show exploring it with depth. So much experimentalism in fact that even iconoclastic 5w4 artists like Scott Walker and Trent Reznor praised him for his fearlessness. Also, too many sheeples on this website. He avoids making any value judgements, but rather tries to turn the interviewers questions upside down by making individualistic but ultimately detached statements. David Bowie: "There are several things on this album that lead front other things I've done. Apparently that idea comes from Lenore Thomson:http://www. But look at what I unintentionally found tonight, what a Ni expert says, who also agrees Bowie is INFJ: "David Bowie: Discerning Ni-dom" https://charitysplace. ' I've said it in a thousand different ways. It's more obvious when you compare the Jungian Si type and the MBTI ISxJ, they're completely different. And this idea of Ni being connected to the idea of left-brained-ness is a new one to me. Analyzing with Ni also seems odd, as it's a perceiving function. I don't know if you actually watched the first video I linked, it doesn't seem like you did because right after Bowie comments on how spontaneous and quick Iggy is with writing songs, Bowie then compares Iggy's process to his own saying how he's the opposite -- that for him it "takes months just to write one word". Se is very conceptual with work that they're passionate about as they almost always have different projects going on. See here for Levels of Development for type 4. From what I can discern of Bowie's interviews this is the same theme, making him INFJ and not INFP or ENFP. I really want to use it. The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. They are extroverted, idealistic, charismatic, outspoken, highly principled and ethical, and usually know how to connect!. Anyway, the reason is good you brought Dylan into conversation is because the same things about Bowie being an enigma applies just as well to Dylan. Without Fe and Se to collect external information, their Ni would have nothing to analyze. The Se is however subordinated to Ne so it's usually not apparent. ,,The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. '' gets to be typed as a J by default as in Bowie's case, or to be considered a Fi-dom in Dylan's case. Those are all INFP musicians and their stuff is great - But it's all largely the same. As opposed to Dylan or someone like Neil Young who are most probably ISFP, Bowie never knows what he wants for a record. That may seem paradoxical, but ENFP are also often taken for xSFP because of their lack of concentration and care of details (inferior Si) while ENTPs have fewer chances of passing for a Se user. " Another INFJ 4w5 (Bergman) who held that same philosophy. That song is yet another way. @Scotty No sir it is a technique so that you pronounce the letters slower. In Berlin, he paired up with Brian Eno to create the experimental album "Low" which is one of his most lyrically depressing albums cast over upbeat experimental sound. Tony DeFries did all that he could to keep "Low" from being released, but Bowie managed to have it released anyway. The MBTI questionnaire sorts people into one of 16 different personality types.. You're right to correct my use of the word "warm". Also, his obsession with psychology and science fiction shown with his lyrics featuring a lot of random scientific symbolism suggests Ti. He's far too self-aware to be a 3. David Bowie: "Thematically, I've always dealt with isolation in everything I've written. com/music/news/beat-godfather-meets-glitter-mainman-19740228. Those of you questioning her Ni are in the high minority. In fact, they're both kinda infamous for this reason. The INFJ can invent an character within their Ni-Fe. He then leaves one vision for his art for another (Ne-dom) but while at it, he embodies that particular vision in time (Fi). So they latch onto itimmediately. "From Ian Cogdell's 'The Nine Dots': "The Jungian focus of this E-pattern is Introverted Intuition. I can switch accents within seconds of meeting somebody -- I can adopt their accent. In the mid to late 1970's, he told interviewers about his obsession with writing characters for his songs that are based on Adolf Hitler. Compare that to Andy Warhol (3w4) opinion on Los Angeles: "I love Los Angeles, and I love Hollywood. In the mid to late 1970's, he told interviewers about his obsession with writing characters for his songs that are based on Adolf Hitler. Even if acting isn’t your thing, every INFJ still has this in them, and it often comes out in other ways. It's confusing. I can't say that life'spainsor more tragic episodes have been diminished because of it. They don't have a carein the world and are of no possible use to us. No need to strawman me here and say that I am ignorant because I only think Ne types explore ideas. Meanwhile David Bowie plays the rock-star persona effortlesly, he embodies it. [laughs] Even though it's me doing it. Extraverted feeling characteristics: - seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires, and beliefs - focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations - are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other - seek to objectively understand the feelings of others. I'm not going to cater to you and a few other people raising ambiguity about her type in another forum. My comment prior to this was more re: the light oversimplification tends to put 3s in in general than anything else, for the record, but re: Bowie, I'm not actually trying to fight your typings, for what it's worth. He talks about how his stage persona is a construct that doesn't really reflect who he actually is. "^ This is called Introjection by the way. He was no politician. But from the 90's he supported download and was deeply interested in the internet revolution. v=PJ0o5Y05wKsI feel as if the case of "Low" being evidence for 4 > 3 needs more context considering you mentioning yourself that Bowie didn't actively promote it in combination with its initially being reviewed harshly. You can see Trent Reznor talking more about that here: https://www. I think you're wrong. ENFP is also possible. In fact, the MBTI ISTJ and ISFJ are clearly Te and Fe Jungian types first and foremost, not introverted irrationals. In order to create a new person, then, the introverted feeler must in some way be using an intuitive function to do so, but in the way you describe would clearly be Ne: creating a tangible character based on a certain emotion. David Bowie, in 1976: "I’ve now decided that my death should be very precious. Through introverted intuition he manages to link the humanistic qualities between these two seemingly unrelated characters. To me it sounds more like ''I see him ISFP no matter what, so any qoute you say, I'll just say it's ISFP''. "David Bowie, 1978 interview: "The Thin White Duke was the most scary of the lot. Dylan and Bowie left themselves at the whims of their own imagination and perceptions of things and where it lead them. And, boy, when he hit that stage, he worked an audience. Nor do I think changing one's music style thorugh one's carier makes one a social type. Then the articles started coming out 'This Isn't Rock & Roll. People like him and Annie Clark I like to lable "Nz" types because they flip back and forth in terms of where their intuition is directed. They say they want freedom, but when they get the chance, they pass up Nietzsche and choose Hitler because he would march into a room and music and lights would come on at strategic moments. This is ground control to mayor Tom, me likey 2 ^_^He also wrote a song about Introverted Intuition. An interview with William Burroughs from 1974:. She's ESTP 3w4. Gabriel adresses his feelings directly, is quite expressive. I'm a collector. I've switched my vote from ENFP to INFJ for Bowie. But it's allowed me so many moments of companionship when I've been lonely and a sublime means of communication when I wanted to touch people. I could had that his friendship with Jodorowsky and his interest in Jung (writing a song about him and all) is also demonstrative of Ni, but you could answer that Bowie produced a record like The Man Who Sold The World, inspired by Nietzsche and Aleister Crowley, Ni users. An INFJ could enter a completely foreign country, and within weeks, or even days, completely master their culture, and maybe even accent. Bob Dylan comes to mind as an ISFP and social 4 who would always try to change/adapt his music to the latest trends much to the dismay of his audience who wanted his older folk sound. It's more obvious when you compare the Jungian Si type and the MBTI ISxJ, they're completely different. "Waiting for the gift of Ni. I didn't post these references earlier, frankly because it's very long. Gabriel went as far as you can go in terms of exploring the depth of feelings, very much in the way Jung did with his own psyche. The comparison is still valid in my view since we can see that 82% of people on this site voted that she is an Ni dominant. Every person’s preference can be found on a spectrum, so just choose the letter you identify with most.. But now I understand the case to be the opposite. ISFP is a stupid typing due to CT. I think it's close but his comfort with letting musicians in the studio do their own thing and lack of control in terms of musicianship seems quite Fe. Figures whom are highly regarded (though still debated) Ni-doms. My vote keeps changing too. @Bobnickmad I respect what you say about the power of Fi, but once again I believe it is imperative that we look within the overall vision of the worker to see how it is relating to the function stack and the ego. That sounds awfully like the language you use to describe high Fi, but in fact, the way he uses it, and the purpose are to understand the nature of how emotions impact reality. I think you're confusing the word "exploring" with Ne. Talking about his work with Trent Reznor: "Trent is a minimalist in the way that he structures his material, my stuff tends to be over layered and conceptual". I want to be a superhuman", "People are so fucking dumb"; visionary Ni-dom: "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming", "The moment you know you know you know"; adoration towards Fi-doms: "I rate Morrissey (Steven Patrick Morrissey) as one of the best lyricists in Britain. "Bowie's quote taken from this video interview:David Bowie: "I find that I'm a person who can take on the guises of different people that I meet. God knows what it is looking for, but if it's not careful it's going to end up with a Hitler. The same thing with the need for change that characterizes Bowie. It's even more obvious when Jung recapitulates the introverted irrational types and describes them in ways that are almost the opposite of the extroverted judging types and the least J overall of the types. Total ISFPISFP 3w4 makes zero sense. I think it's that same evasion of talking about one's own feelings, that creates this misunderstanding where others stereotypically see INFJs as "mysterious", "otherwordly", and "elusive". We can see from this interview that he's very N and P. Peter Gabriel still ENFP to me. I changed my vote that very same day; I'm that fast. This place is so ready to be picked up by anybody who has a strong enough personality to lead. He started off strictly as a fictional character. "Material Girl", "Bad Girl", "Erotica", "Survival", "I'd Rather be Your Lover", "Inside Of Me", "Drowned World". I felt very puny as a human. If you listen to Bob Dylan or Lana del Rey, you'll get some pretty straightforward Fi-Se-Ni songs about answers blowin in the wind or finding oneself on the open road. When really it's their exploration and discovery of the behavioral patterns and feelings of others that helps an INFJ discover their inner self. Instead he decided he would follow Iggy Pop on his "Lust for Life" tour and become Iggy Pop's touring keyboard player. That's what Ziggy was. In fact, they're both kinda infamous for this reason. I don't know who's trolling, but I would never say something like that, especially not about David Bowie. I could buy some function magic argument where the mythical Ni superpowers are something that he possesses but there is no way you can really say he is a "judger", nor can you for Annie Clark, who multiple people are questioning about her "Ni" which you seem to just not pay attention to. He is ENxP, no doubt about it after seeing the expo "david bowie is". The name itself refers to someone with the ability of adjusting with ease toward external condition and behavior, that is extroverted characteristics, so while an INFJ may be the most ''social chameleon''-like of the introverts, several extroverted types would still outclass it. But exploring possibilities =/= exploring ideas. The genesis of the idea actually comes from his song Somebody Up There Likes Me, Bowie states: 'One of the most interesting songs on the new album is "Somebody Up There Likes Me," a warning about the danger of hero worship. And ENTP 3 is still a strange combination to me ^^ I don't know, I get an ENTP vibe from him. And I’ve always just seemed to COLLECT PERSONALITIES, ideas. Back in the early 1970s before Ziggy Stardust, Bowie wrote the Ni-Ti song "Quicksand" on Hunky Dory. Usually for ENTP (Thurston Moore, Dave Thomas of Pere Ubu), it's more a case of mad scientist at play, while Bowie becomes his art. In fact, that's the whole point of ,,No Direction Home'' by Martin Scorsese, there is no Bob Dylan the person, just the name under which the many faces of the same artist are brought together. According to Tony Visconti, Bowie also wrote this song when he was only 16, then recorded a demo for it in the early 70s. I'm an awful liar. So, Intuitive, lead with extroverted perception: clear Ne-dom. She hasn't attempted to diverge away from that. Actors play someone else, I play myself. "Carl Jung: "There is no coming to consciousness without pain. Let's look at self-preservation 4s for a second to compare. Someone who finds it easier to write for others than about himself =/= MBTI Fi-dom. It's good you brought Bob Dylan into discussion, who btw I don't see as ISFP 4 but IxTP 4. EON, I'd be curious to know what you think of Bowie's personality in this video here where he describes his friend Iggy Pop's songwriting process compared to his own. Bob Dylan is still writing straightforward Fi-Se-Ni songs. Introverted intuitive types frequently will have complex visions or perspectives that they are unable to explain with clarity to others. This site is broken. Politeness and curtoasy isn't really just a FJ thing. You are using a distracting tactic. Their dominant function, Introverted Intuition (Ni), serves as the veritable foundation for this inner playhouse. He absorbs emotions from whoever he's with. com/151364531TBH, I feel as if this site tends to get INFJ-vote-happy when it comes to prominent people noted for being thoughtful and conceptual and can't help but suspect it's based on the type's statistically-recorded rarity. "It looks like idlebody is a woman XD Erase and rewind, sowwy XDSo I was the first to defy everyone here saying Bowie was INFJ and now we see Scotty drooling all over idlebody's profile page. I don't agree at all with him having ISFP traits, I think that whole ISFP thing is a joke considering that Bowie is the embodiment of Ne. If you want a real example of an ENFP 4w3 so/sx, look up goth comedian Noel Fielding. Ne musicians are actually much more likely to stick to one thing, like John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Morrissey, etc etc, because they have Si. I don't see how anyone can get xNTP for Marilyn Manson, he is archetypal INFJ:In a 1997 Rolling Stone interview, Marilyn Manson stated "Sometimes I wonder if I'm a character being written, or if I'm writing myself. For me, he's up there with Bryan Ferry"; and HOLY SHITTTT. I just want to make my case as to why he's 4w3 instead of 3w4. "I was not asking myself who I was".
. I think Bowie would have found himself in these descriptions of the extraverted intuitive type. one-track mind(noun phrase)Definition: Amindlimitedtoorobsessedwithasingleidea,theme,etc. People are quite shocked when I say I'm an introvert because I'm so 'extroverted' in their eyes. 4w3That makes no sense because Bowie is the archetypal Ne user. I don’t think anyone knew him. So I found it quite easy to write for the artists that I would create. No, sorry, I only meant about your last comment, I agree that you made some great points about why he's a Ne-dom. personalitypathways. I don't see how writing from the perspective of another character is Fe over Fi, I tough it's well established that both Fi and Fe can do this. Also when you talk about valuing functions, do you mean in the Socionics sense. INFJ confirmed. But I wonder what makes him Fi/Te over Ti/Fe. Anyway, the reason is good you brought Dylan into conversation is because the same things about Bowie being an enigma applies just as well to Dylan. Bowie has a background in theatre and mime, so his approach to music is in a very similar way. It's because Celebrity Types has him as ISFP, I think. I was not Ziggy Stardust. Jim Morrison was another ENFP with an effortless rock-star persona. High Fi has the ability to pin-point a certain emotion or instinct in themselves and then develop a character out of that or see the link between apparently unrelated kind of people. Really, I'm a very one track person. All sex and no romance was the problem. Gabriel is often mistyped as a 4, but he is a clear 9w1 sx. I don't exactly lie, I change my mind all the time. I've always found that I collect. Visconti also sees Heathen as the first moment in Bowie’s career when he adressed directly his feelings, in a very naive and childlike way (Afraid). So Bowie being cold and aloof, building walls between him and his musicians on tours, and less of a textbook idealist led me to believe he was ENTP before I switched to ENFP. To say that only Ne-valuing types explore ideas is a bit ignorant to say the least. Even admitting that his fan-favorite characters Ziggy Stardust, Thin White Duke, et al are actually reinterpretations of Hitler. Bowie developped his introverted side in the second half of his life. I took a look at my thoughts, my appearance, my expressions, my mannerisms and idiosyncrasies and didn't like them. lots of copying and pasting involved, but since scotty asked how deep Bowie got with his ideas/obsessions as his "singular focus", I'll copy all that info from his interviews here. His need for reinvention, his ch-ch-ch-ch-changes. They're beautiful. "And if we're to suddenly lump Bowie as a Ne-user just because he's changed so much, then we might as well do the same for Marilyn Manson as he's followed in the exact same footsteps as Bowie [Taken from 'Dissecting Marilyn Manson' bio]:Any Ni-dom who's a 4 is always going to come across more P over J on the surface because their particular enneagram type is all about being in a constant state of "change". I see that some people still believe he's 3w4 over 4w3, so I'll make my case for 4w3. In fact, this is clearly a discussion that takes place between two NPs, tough Burroughs is more introverted. All Dylan did it seems, was to take information from all kinds of non-related areas, from day to day life, news, literature, history and paintings, and his subconscious shaped it into powerfull imagery without imposing too much judgements of either valueing or logical kind. : "The only art I’ll ever study is stuff that I can steal from". That's why I loved drugs so much. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. All Dylan did it seems, was to take information from all kinds of non-related areas, from day to day life, news, literature, history and paintings, and his subconscious shaped it into powerfull imagery without imposing too much judgements of either valueing or logical kind. They arrive somewhere in Greenwich Village. The end comes when the infinites arrive. Are you actually typing out the letters as if he is clearly introverted, intuitive, feeling, and judging. Why is that the ''social chameleon'' role has been asigned to an introverted type. ENFP 4w3 sx/so. IMO the fact that Bowie was a chameleon, a great impersonator, shows he is definitely not INFJ. v=LwTFW4kfHl4 This interview is really revealing about what Idlebody talked about. " As soon as Ziggy dies onstagethe infinites take his elements and make themselves visible. This marks an extremely uncanny ability that you INFJ folk have. He was a media artist himself. Extraverted Intuition:Ne users to tend to go broader by linking from one idea to another. "@Schmendrick You mentioned that when Bowie created Blackstar at the end of his life when his functions were all developed. That intrigued me about the Nazis. I found that I'd taken back to England with me a character who was the epitome of everything that it looked like could be happening to England. I thought ENTP for a long time, because of his way of being detached and quite insensitive at times. His explorations were very sensual. His feelings depend on external sources. I decided to do them in disguise so that I didn't have to actually go through the humiliation of going onstage and being myself. When a 4 reaches the highest health level, they are able to let go of their forced uniqueness and attachment to their self-image. And when he was singing, he’d take the pose. But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. Read now what Jung had to say about extroverted intuitive type:. One fine example of this is one of his earliest songs from his first self-titled album called "The Maid of Bond Street". "David Bowie, 1996 interview: "Spirituality has been a recurrent qualification of my work from the day I started writing. Thom Yorke, an so/sp 4, went from 90's alt rock to experimental electronic music. ' He wasn’t rowdy or raucous. You could find very personal and deep lyrics from songs like Secret World, Blood of Eden where the Ni+Fe is quite obvious. But I then realised that many of the ENFP I know are this way, self centered and sometimes lack authenticity. INFJs for example, collect information from their intuition, but also from their Se environment which gets filtered through their Ti before their Ni analyzes it. Not a wishy-washy kind of fey, flower-child thing, but a very medieval, firm-handed masculine God awareness where we go out and make the world right again. Ziggy is advised in a dream by the infinites to write the coming of a starman, so he writes "Starman," which is the first news of hope that the people have heard. I also find you can also see a bit Bowie's Fe on display there when, before answering the question, he asks Iggy not once but twice if it's ok for him to answer on Iggy's behalf. "I think my problem used to be that I was always shy and fairly awkward in social situations," Bowie says. He wrote the song "The Supermen" which is based on Nietzsche's Ubermensch. "David Bowie, 1976 interview: "People aren't very bright, you know. I'm obviously not a native english speaker, and expressive is quite what I meant to say. He after mastering and fully exploring a sound or idea, he left it behind and quickly moved on to a new thing. For Bowie, emotions and feelings have always been a problem. If anything Ne can be somewhat more creative than Ni. "Tony Zanetta, actor from Andy Warhol's entourage: "David [Bowie] certainly wasn’t shy but David was kind of laid back and quiet. Bowie feeling alienated from his audience because they don't have the same taste for obscure underground music. To get back on track - what function is supposed to be more likely to explore so many ideas that they can describe this approach as "collecting ideas". Taken from the INTPs over at theINTPforum. The reason why his Ne is well-developed is because he has a 7-fix in his tritype. Well, admiring someone's spontaneity doesn't mean one isn't spontaneous himself, just that the other person outdoes him. He's a Ni-dom with a well-developed Ne. Elliot Smith was a sp/sx 4 and his music stayed folk/bluesy. The reason why 3s are associated with artifice is because the 3s sin is deceit (deceit with themselves and others). Human rights of LGBT in the 70's, post-Cold War division of Germany, post-hippie depression, black equality, the list goes on. I'm pretty sure Ingmar Bergman is INFP. Youtube him and then compare him to Bowie. Gaga's alter egos have little to no biography or backstory. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings which are ever-changing. His lyrics explore deep emotional realms, intimacy, and show a desire to merge with the one, a sense of being though an idealized other. Bowie is Ne incarnate and one of the most intuitive musicians of his time. In a way it's almost a lost cause to try to determine which judging function these people mainly use (Bowie, Dylan, Lynch, Cave, Kafka, Argento) since what mainly characterized them as artists is that they mainly suppresed judging for the sake of intensifying their perception. Sure, the Ni type that makes his perception into a moral problem can be a J, but like Jung says, that's not the general case, the general case is the artist who confines himself at the level of perception, so a P type first and foremost. ] He didn’t draw attention to himself. Although he was a complex individual, interested in many things (ENxPs are the most cultivated people I ever met), including Ni fileds (like I mentioned with The Man Who Sold The World), he was not a judger, had no real ethics, message etc and his intuition was not focussed, limited, introverted, even dare I say subjective. He always changed his mind, and was honest about it. Patti Smith is an ENFP 4w5 sx/so and her music has stayed folk/rock. 3s like Madonna and Ricky Martin have very rarely veered away from their pop sound, which has proven to be successful for them, because veering away into more experimental music would mean the risk of losing their success. It was very important to him to manage. Welcome to MBTIBase - PersonalityBase, here you can learn about David Bowie MBTI type.. It's a city I really detest. Why because he's artistic. There are ways to reconcile it which is why I won't call it an outright contradiction but in Bowie's case it does make me wonder how that works, or if he is giving the most accurate, unbiased assessments of himself. His songwriting style is not at all straightforward like an ISFP's songwriting. He wrote this song before he became famous. "The West is going to have a Hitler. It's Enneagram 4 type's defense mechanism. I didn’t really need company particularly. the quotes confirmed it. In the song, he writes about the feelings and perspectives of two different characters. What type is (was) this guy. Hmm, I'm not convinced :p ENTPs have inferior Si too, so why wouldn't they also be taken for SPs. Bowie has no problem with imagination. I will agreed he did display the persona of an INFJ in his career. At his unhealthiest, his need to look unique was emphasized, but that changed later on. I never claimed Bowie is 3 tough, just that the ''social chameleon'' could be more likely a 3 than a 4. 3w4 sx/so seems possible because its almost his song and appearance are almost equal. Before his death, in his song Blackstar, he once again plays the role of a preacher. Ne explores potential, it explores "what is possible". I think he is ENFP, and people only judge his characters or personas and don’t type David Jones but more of Ziggy or Thin White Duke. His approach is VERY different to Lady Gaga. Look at Madonna for instance. I could go on. any way* I never mentioned integration/disintegration. It's because of that ability that so many people mistakenly viewed him as "messianic" or "Godlike". Zeego, I did not say that he was interested in cult leaders in general. I did pay attention Scotty but I'm not going to do so in another forum. The time is five years to go before the end of the earth. But no, I'm always the retard according to him. I found that in real life ENFPs are often more selfish, self-centered than ENTPs, who themselves are quite warm and considerate towards their close ones. I stil can see him as a very conceptual ENFP, maybe in the range of a Jim Morrison or in a way John Lennon might have been, the trouble is that I sometimes spot Ti in his behaviour. Donald Trump is an INFJ. In Bowie's case, however, it seems he starts with an idea, such as the idea of isolation, and then he pushes himself into a position where he must experience that or creates a character who must experience it and by proxy, understanding how he abstractly constructs their psyche feels their reeling and their emotion. Its nostalgic quality is very unusual for Bowie, exploring his inferior Si when facing death. For more examples of Bowie's Ni, allanyone has to do is look at his creations to see the constant pattern in his work. David Bowie, 1993 interview: "I was interested in the symbols of the Nazis. When David Bowie creates characters, like Ziggy Stardust for example, his intentions with the character are to explore that character's psyche, what motivates that character, what naive idealistic expectations that character may have, what that character's inevitable downfall might be (example: Ziggy commits suicide) , as well as what emotional state that character is in. Also, Fi because IMO he really embodies his art. @idlebody I was reading a couple of Evan Rachel Wood interviews, and she being a person obsessed with David Bowie said that Tilda Swinton (whom she also admires) was like a female version of Bowie. '' The same way it can be applied to David Lynch, Nick Cave, Franz Kafka or Dario Argento. This Is Fascism' and 'Bowie's A Nazi' and all of a sudden I was too far in. He was about 24 years old when he wrote it. That's what being an intuitive is all about. He seizes hold of new objects and new wayswith eager intensity, sometimes with extraordinary enthusiasm, only to abandon them cold-bloodedly, without regard and apparently without remembrance, as soon as their range becomes clearly defined and a promise of any considerable future development no longer clings to them. I don't know much about Iggy, but he seems like an ExxP from what I do know. I don't think I've ever typed anyone in that manner. Jung also proposed that in a person one of the four functions above is dominant – either a function of perception or a function of judging.. Randomness, exploration of possibilities in a broad sense, extroversion, his methods of work prove Ne use all over the place. 3w4 + ENFPhttp://brianmay. All those songs are about herself using plenty of first-person pronouns. So I stripped myself down, chucked things out and replaced them with a completely new personality. So much of what he writes about is a social commentary about the times he was living in. On drugs, once you started talking you never stopped - whether there was anybody with you or not. Gabriel always find a diversion not to finish a record. Change my vote to INFJ. It reflects the way he thinks. "David Bowie, 2002 interview: "I was a kid that loved being in my room reading books and entertaining ideas. I think it's less what of the 16 types is he and more which ENxP is he. Never really have. When you are a Fe-valuing type, you mirror and adjust your personality to the person you are in contact with. What that post manages to prove is that Bowie is N-dom. why not just david bowie. ": https://www. And they tear him to pieces onstage during the song "Rock and Roll Suicide. I'm a collector. And I've always seemed to just collect personalities, ideas. But they couldn't be more wrong. With your Ni vs Ne thing though, I wonder: how deep did Bowie actually analyze this concept. They just seem Perception leading Perceptive types. I still do that. After that, he obfuscated himself in songs with multiple character perspectives, metaphors and symbolism. v=H7Sgq0XoxPw. If you're not talking about J/P, then you've lost me. I didn't see your comment before mine. Leonard Cohen is a 4w5 sp/so and his music has more or less stayed bluesy/folk music. In the 1970s, Bowie was particularly unhappy with his manager Tony DeFries. ] If you thought about it long enough, you could pose the question: Did Antichrist Superstar create Marilyn Manson as a vehicle for its rise to power. He strives for randomness. For this reason and a lot of others, INFJs are notoriously difficult to type. He was an ogre for me. '' gets to be typed as a J by default as in Bowie's case, or to be considered a Fi-dom in Dylan's case. Her identity, feelings, and values are easily identifiable in her music and her memoirs. 'China girl' is my favorite song ^_^ but he didn't write that one alone. I'll change my vote to INFP 4w3 for Bowie, tough I still think ambiverted fits him best, because I can't see how someone who ,,stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. And to answer your other question, all intuitive types "collect" information. Jung about introverted irrationals. Not putting his career first, not putting 'hey this was successful so I better hold onto that'. I'm still very unsure wether Bowie is ENTP or ENFP. Fi in the dominant positions asks that an ego be constructed which creates some sort of a moral standard or code in order to quickly deal with and in a sense rationalize the various emotional reactions that occur to separate experiences. " Oh, EON, I just thought of one more thing in relation to what you said about how Ne likes to change things up and not stay with things for too long. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. He was also very concern with the internet, from the start, and has an undestranding of technology that fits ENTP better than ENFP. He adores INFPs so much. People mistakenly believe that because he's not exploring himself in his music, that makes him 3w4. In that same interview below, David Bowie said this about Los Angeles: "I went to Los Angeles and I lived there for a couple of years. "David Bowie, 1993 interview: "My other fascination with the Nazis was their search for the Holy Grail. For them, it's a question that requires a lot of thought and time to decipher. Even if not directly tested, public voting can provide good accuracy regarding David Bowie Myers-Briggs and personality type!. My main issues here are:. But I’m open for debate. ''from their lowest health level (9)'' Sounds just like what I'd expect out of an ISFP 3w4, and why was my vote changed to INFJ. Also the stuff about ''internet is rebellion. More like the power of cock. You are in the best place to test MBTI and learn what type David Bowie likely is!. EON, thank you for taking the time to respond. Actually, they can seem like any type, depending on which side of their multi-faceted, multi-layered personality they want to show you in whichever social context you happen to be in. Adolf Hitler was one of the first rock stars. But what about Bob Dylan. So have other famous INFJs (Gary Oldman, etc) declared that they have much preferred playing characters rather than being themselves because they loathed themselves too much. v=LwTFW4kfHl4David Bowie does have some Fi, mainly because he's a 4w3, but his Fe outweighs his Fi. They took a Buddhist symbol, the Eastern symbol of the sun, and turned it around so it became a symbol of the dark. Dylan always tried to keep a sense of mystery and hide himself behind contradictory statements, most likely because his views on things and of himself was never very clear. Sorry wrong lyrics from Sledgehammer. If anything, that just puts the last nail in the idea that he could be anything like ISFP. He never gets into a studio with songs already written, he's looking for a meaningful acccident (just like someone like Robert Altman would). The interviewer asks him if he's lonely and alienated, he says that his characters are lonely and alienated. And yes, one can argue that he "learned to be more self-aware as he got older", but Bowie's been writing self-aware music since his adolescence. I don’t get how you can see Bowie as a J type. I meant why you choose ENFP over ENTP, but you made great points about why he's ENxP. While the musicians jammed on the Outside sessions, he painted and listened to them. During the Diamond Dogs era he recorded a whole concert with the musicians on the left of the stage not hearing the musicians on the right. You may even think an INFJ isyourtype, since they like to frequently use the social tool called ‘mirroring’, which is basically observing and copying your mannerisms in order to gain rapport with you. I guess the context I was trying to put it in was that Bowie was always someone who did whatever he felt like doing, at any point in his career, even at the earliest stages of it, and there was nothing anyone could do or say to stop him. Could you tell me more about that. Bowie has always been about trends, envisioning the future, see his interview with Jeremy Paxman about the internet. @Schmendrick Oh sorry. Just look at some of his interviews or read about what people close to him thought of him. " Tbh idles quotes are almost having me lean that way but INFP definitely seems likely as well. Sure, the Ni type that makes his perception into a moral problem can be a J, but like Jung says, that's not the general case, the general case is the artist who confines himself at the level of perception, so a P type first and foremost. I don't think he's IEI but at least I can see that making more sense in Socionics than the idea of being FJ in MBTI. David Bowie explaining his stage-play version of Ziggy Stardust:. Jung about introverted irrationals. Both N-dominants are good at seeing possibilities in things and going into abstractions. That, combined with extraverted feeling and his average to high health levels is going to make him seem like he's not a 4, even though he actually is. The way he changes his colours is not so much an expression of the self, but it also his way of holding up a mirror to the world, showing everyone what being a human really means. It's good you brought Bob Dylan into discussion, who btw I don't see as ISFP 4 but IxTP 4. I think here it's the difference between the ,,enigmatic'' perception types like Bowie or Dylan who were always enigmatic, contradictory and changing, and someone like Patti Smith which was more clear in her judgements and self-perception: Smith probably had a much more differentiated judging function even tough a P-leading type as well. "Francis Whately: "The David Bowie that I knew in my limited way was incredibly courteous, was incredibly polite, well informed, utterly charming. While I definitely associate Cornell or Dylan with Ni, there is no way IMO that Bowie is anything else than a strong Ne user. And he was quite clear about what difference that would make to how this voice should be. Still, while I agree with Ni, that does not make him a J (and like I said, I no longer type by function stacks). Indeed he said in 72 « I could never work with a computer ». When you ask an extraverted feeler, especially one who's an INFJ, how they really feel they're not going to know what to say. its vast potential is untapped'' could be Ni, but it can also be Ne: look how many possibilities this internet thing offer. It's somewherebetween the two. Who was the black magician. I think I've made some solid points in this thread. I had no problem writing something for Iggy Pop, or working with Lou Reed, or writing for Mott the Hoople -- I can get into their mood and what they want to do. In case anyone doesn't know what Bowie means by "one-track person", it's someone who has a one-track mind. Well it took me some time to understand that being detached, somewhat cerebral was not necessarily Ti over Fi in Ne doms. When I started dressing for the part and acting it out onstage, the edges of definition between myself and the character became blurry. He's more likely INFJ but no one has voted that one either. He could be INTP for all I know. I lived a lot in my imagination. ” That's Enneagram 4 elitism right there. I believe it was good- the best way to fight an evil force is to caricature it. I thought this was supposed to be Ne in function land: exploring a large amount of ideas rather than refining a singular whole. Remember that Iggy Pop once said that Bowie knew everyone in Berlin and was a social bee, much more extraverted than himself. I don't understand the ENTP votes. In fact, the MBTI ISTJ and ISFJ are clearly Te and Fe Jungian types first and foremost, not introverted irrationals. I think it screams inferior Si. ENFPs 3 are not as frequent as ENTPs, but they are not that rare either. Anyway, I guess you realize that several of us abandoned function stacks. ’ His feelings about who this person was were quite specific. So I don't see your logic in how or why you'd think that makes Bowie 3w4 and Fi-valuing. Before I believed him to be a Ne-dom with a well-developed Ni. But let me state my case :. It's part of the shell that I've always built up around myself. If so, do you see Bowie as left-brained. But I find it extremely hard to write for me. Don Richard Riso states in his enneagram literature that 4s are identity-seekers(hence the change) and that from their lowest health level (9) until about the second-highest level (2) they are on a "search for self". Anyway, I'm not sure I should argue since I think I've made fair enough arguments before on this page and you seem to have an opposite consideration of Fe/Fi seing how you always type (Bergman page and all). "The Power of Ni". He’d know who the person singing it was, and their attitude. Ziggy was a caricature he created to portray the inauthenticity of what it means to play the role of the "rock musician". But in Los Angeles it's fabrication in real life. I usually don't agree with what I say very much. ) but I won't try to convince anyone artists with feelings don't have to be FPs. "I can adopt their accent. " Ne users like novelty, imagination, randomness, etc. mysterymeat, you make good points on him being more of a Ni type than a Ne type, specially how it takes him him allot to write a song, which is more true for an introverted process. really really ENFP "exploration" of universes, of new stuff, always looking for something new, he feels what can be possible, tries and manages. Noel Fielding (Ne with Fi): "I have never thought of myself as an actor, though I play about 500 different characters in the show. Agree with matejko, he was a true individualist artistic type. But his main obsessions were Adolf Hitler, Aleister Crowley, and Nietzsche. And saying Bowie is darker than Gabriel is nonsense. Bowie is Ni and also heavily Fe. When Johnny Depp (4w3) transforms himself into Jack Sparrow or Mad Hatter for his roles, is he being untrue to himself for fame/success. he had a bird's eye view when it came to humanity (Ni), and it's what made him so ahead of his time. What is the best option for the MBTI type of David Bowie? What about enneagram and other personality types?. Basically shifting all focus off of himself and into supporting Iggy. com/2016/01/21/david-bowie-discerning-ni-dom/Yeah; INFJ, right. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. He even says in an interview ,,I'm only Bob Dylan when I have to be Bob Dylan, the rest of the time I can just be myself. Everyones an INFJ. ENTPs I know are the opposite, their Fe making them warmer. I'm more just probing out of curiosity. Some life force. ''He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise. I've always found that I collect. And it's only because what is inside is so vulnerable that the shell has to be so hard. When I saw a quality in someone that I liked, I took it. A truly wonderful, unique, and inspirational person. On a more controversial note, I re-tough the MBTI function order in order to make it fit better with my personal observations, and use all 8 functions in a more logical arrangement, rather than holistic and simplified function axes. Same goes for Grimes and Kanye West. "Sure, ENFPs do like to change things up in the external world, but why would a type that values Introverted Feeling change personalities. And since when do only Ne users explore ideas. He was an artist who took a great deal of risk. « Sometimes I must fight against the idea that what is familair is necesarly mediocre » (1999). I was just looking for some answers. CelebrityTypes strikes again with crap typings - this guy is like the definition of ENFP. Their emotional landscape, their mood which is guiding those changes. ""As Bowie has admitted, the Nazi elements of the Duke persona are entirely intentional. If you want to compare ENFP Bowie to someone who really has a similar career and is without a doubt INFJ, go see Peter Gabriel. It's all wrapped up in one of those stereotypical 'Johnny' songs: Johnny does this, Johnny does that — in this particular one he's hauled up as the most mundane, philistine elements of what everybody hates about America. "As with all introverts, INFJs’ and INTJs’ first order of business is an internal one. Introverted intuition typically creates a unique vision and arrives at unique insights about things, phenomena, or people. I really can't imagine an ISFP talking like him in interviews. INFPs, like most introverts, are quiet and reserved. They prefer not to talk about themselves.. This will be my last comment on Bowie's type. I'm familiar with the man's work and peculiar personality, I had the pleasure of seing him live on the Reality tour, and was absolutely convinced by the exhbition David Bowie Is that he could not be anything but ENxP. The human bond was rarely there — another drugs spin-off. Marilyn Manson is xNTP, so wouldn't that make him an Ne user. Se doesn't stay in one place. This is unrelated to Bowie, but I'd type Iggy Pop a sexual 4 after watching this interviewwhere he states that he would cut himself impulsively on stage with shards of glass because he felt ashamed. He was certainly ambiverted as many ENFPs and INFJs can be, but he was an introvert with a social instinct which made him seem more outgoing and extroverted than he actually was. For INFJs, their Ni perceives through Fe and Se. I did find it much easier having created Ziggy and to then write for him. I was still doing Arts Laboratory type things and street theatre at the time. You're right about inferior Si. Brian Eno: "David would have an identity in mind. You can't stand still on one point for your entire life. And it was depressing, because I didn’t know what they wanted. I'm talking about the 9 health levels of 4. David Bowie, 1999 interview: "I was quite content spending days without saying a word to anybody, quite alone, getting on with my own obsessive thing, whatever that happened to be at the time. Enneagram 4 types are all about "change", regardless of their functions. He avoids making any value judgements, but rather tries to turn the interviewers questions upside down by making individualistic but ultimately detached statements. You don't seem to have a good grasp on what Ni is in cognitive theory. I really can't imagine an ISFP talking like him in interviews. I'm glad Bowie is finally getting validation as an INFJ. That's what they all are… all the little characters I come up with. Dylan always tried to keep a sense of mystery and hide himself behind contradictory statements, most likely because his views on things and of himself was never very clear. Earlier in his life, from what I gather, he was definitely oriented toward the senses (he seems to have been a visual person as much as an auditory one - he said that when he was young, he wanted to be either a musician or a painter, and he ended up actually being both though he was obviously much more famous for the former; and there's a lot out there about his pre-finally-falling-in-love-with-Iman sexcapades), and though he /was/ good at being a provocateur and was interested in chasing fame, it seems to me to have come from a more Fi-ish place than a Fe-ish one - a raw desire to make more of himself and end up in a position to throw himself all into his chosen line of work, namely the arts, for lack of better phrasing. Confining oneself to the perceptive character of intuition; perception is his principal problem. v=YOBQBbqSs1gLet's Dance was Bowie's most commercially successful album, but he regards it as his worst album. He also says « I'm not a liar, I just keep on changing my mind ». So I was never unaware as my strength as an interpretative performer. I had this religious fervour. A lot of people don't accept David Bowie as a 4w3 simply because they find him "too charming" to be a 4, but the reality is that 4w3 so/sx is the most charming, humorous, and sexually appealing of all type 4 stackings. "David Bowie: "As an adolescent, I was painfully shy, withdrawn. I'll change my vote to INFP 4w3 for Bowie, tough I still think ambiverted fits him best, because I can't see how someone who ,,stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. Clear as day I N F J. He also was obsessed with symbols and archetypes and used quite a lot of them in his work. and seemingly skipping from genre to genre and style to style, fearlessly. His chameleon nature is actually incredibly Jungian. Confining oneself to the perceptive character of intuition; perception is his principal problem. What Bowie is describing is the absorption of others' personalities. This does not cause the end of the world for Ziggy. "Bowie: "It did snowball itself. Whether or not it was a good thing that I did, I don't know. Someone hacked into my account and posted the below message. " To give you an idea of the responses given by other INFJs in that topic:"Only all the time. Obviously I don't so what's the point. The two singers could not hear each other while performing). His work makes no reference to Charles Manson or any of those other leaders you've listed. Anyway Se/Ni over Ne dom for Bowie does not make any sense. That is actually one of the few self-revealing songs of his I can think of. '' The same way it can be applied to David Lynch, Nick Cave, Franz Kafka or Dario Argento. I think they are the most powerful set of symbols that have been invoked in terms of political history. I saw the National Front and it was obvious to me: There was a Nazi Party in England. , misogynistic bitch. "Edmonds: "Yeah, came to believe it. Neverteless, Bowie is not really a clear I or E type, but seems to have an E prefereance + some traits typically associated with introverts. artistic self-expression and originality were more important to him than achievement and success. that sounds very Un-ISFP like. When I think fo Bowie, I associate him with people like Dali, Fellini, Welles, an the more I look the more I consider ENFP over ENTP, but ISFP I can't see. "David Bowie, 1995 interview: "I was very aware of the idea of androgyny or an unknown gender being attached to most priesthoods in the East. Remember how Iggy Pop was impressed by how outgoing he was in Berlin, how large his circle of friends was. "David Bowie, 2002 interview: "I think and read about spirituality all obsessively. They don't shy away from sharing who they are. " Both Ni and Ti are left-brained analytical functions. so/sx 4s show a softer, friendlier side to the public, while only the people closest to them will know of their darker melancholic side. It deals with insecurity, it's about admitting his feelings in a very open way that is sheer Fe. But if you look at social 4s, their music style has and will alway change. Ah ah ah, guess all the posts down there are no good for you. An so/sx is an embracer of change in order to keep up with the changes in culture and the latest trends. If an artist, he reveals extraordinary, remote things in his art, which in iridescent profusion embrace both the significant and the banal, the lovely and the grotesque, the whimsical and the sublime. Bowie has always been fascinated by randomness, cut up methods, his verbasizer shows this very well. mysterymeat are you the admin changing our votes to INFJ. Those original shamans have mutated into the entertainer. Dylan and Bowie left themselves at the whims of their own imagination and perceptions of things and where it lead them. I know expert but from a slight deduction I would guess ENTP but with a weird uncommon enneagram combination like 4w3. [Los Angeles] is sort of a callus. David had a lot of shame related to being "himself", he didn't think he was that particularly interesting nor that he had social savvy, so he felt he needed to create characters and hide himself in them. Bowie didn't see himself as an extrovert. This is a very similar process to Sufjan Stevens, also INFJ. But I would question anyone who said they really knew him. That is the only reason. N and P are the clearest letters. A beautiful story on the writing of under pressure, told by Brian May (most probably ISFJ, so inferior Ne) which further indicates Bowie was a Ne dom. He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowledged thoughlimited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation. I’d like my death to be as interesting as my life has been and will be. That is what differentiates Fi-dom 4s from INFJ 4s. Bowie was quite never emotional about his music on the other hand. Regardless of whatever definition you are able to scrape up (there's hundreds of descriptions for each function, each of which can be used to support a particular type), wouldn't you say the idea of collecting ideas like Bowie described to be more of a Ne thing, in general. However they are TOTALLY different individuals when it comes to personality types or creative process. It was a real effort to become a social animal. Sorry, but when Se inferior try to put that on, it looks weird (Manson,Maynard James Keenan), it's the usually unobserved Se in ENFP that gives them that rock-star aspect. the guy was a unique artistic provocateur. html ''Sounds just like what I'd expect out of an ISFP 3w4''. " It's Ni to the bone and no one seems to question it with her. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle. Well, that goes totally against Fi-dom in MBTI functions. It's really isn't anything scientifically established, so no reason to cling to it. Also, the poster says that Cumbercatch and Mulligan, recognized INFJs aren't, so he's probably biased in his view of what INFJs are like, and probably gives Ni-doms more credit than Ne-dom when it comes to abstraction. Just my general Bowie knowledge and some random quotes made me realize he's INFJ. " doesn't sound like a product of some kind of deep analysis, and in fact it sounds like he used this idea primarily to create a lot of possibilities, however obsessed he was with it. Read his Proust questionnaire, pure Ne humour. Before his death, in his song Blackstar, he once again plays the role of a preacher. 4s are linked to 1s and 2s. See Daniel Lanois talking about Gabriel’s indecisive character in the making of So. Lanois had to lock him down to finish the lyrics of one song. When I heard someone say something intelligent, I used it later as if it were my own. Or we can even look at the sexual 4s. Kendrick Lamar), but as for Bowie, he had a long, fulfilling, and super-productive career over which he would've had plenty of time and chance to develop all of his functions. "Taken from Cultural Disasters' article "The Elusive INFJ":"INFJs Are Not Who You Think They AreThey’re social chameleons, like Mystique from X-Men, they can observe and take on the shape and form (behaviors and mannerisms) of any other type. But that is it. INFJ have inferior Se,which causes a fascination with Se, but when INFJ try to get into Se directly it requires lots of effort, think of Marlyin Manson, and his grotesque display of Se. Him and Peter Gabriel are nearly identical except that Gabriel is so/sp and Bowie is so/sx. Are you talking about the J/P dichotomy when you say Je/Pe doms. To quote Carl Jung, on Introverted Intuitive dominants: "The peculiar nature of introverted intuition, when given the priority, also produces a peculiar type of man, the mystical dreamer and seer on the one hand, or the fantastical crank and artist on the other. To the same degree as they fail to understand themselves -- because they very largely lack judgment -- they are also powerless to understand why they are so constantly undervalued by public opinion. About Peter Gabriel being INFJ: I'm very open to the idea. He only has a concept of what the record should be. ""Usually I avoid any kind of interaction if it will eventually result in more than myself and another person. The fact that so much arguments for Ne were given on PD yet ISFP still leads in votes is quite baffling. "For more examples of Bowie's Ni, allanyone has to do is look at his creations to see the constant pattern in his work. Nobody wonders who the "real" them is. v=lFIDXXDsxAo 9s and 4s aren't connected in anyway. INFJ so/sx 4w3 7w6 8w9 (The Messenger)Also, the way I determined David Bowie was social instinct first was through his music. I'm also more convinced of ENFP over my initial ENTP guess as time goes by. For example, Patti Smith's never been an enigma. How did MBTI arrived at the conclusion that such a person is J if all that matters for him/her is perception. No way this guy is a sensor. He felt a lot of contempt towards the massive audience that Let's Dance brought to him. Intuitives focus on a more abstract level of thinking; they are more interested in theories, patterns, and explanations. They are often more concerned with the future than the present and are often described as creative. They just seem Perception leading Perceptive types. Look at her discography. I still see Bowie as a cerebral individual, but I found some ENFPs in "real life" to be just like that. The way I determined this is by deconstructing the themes in his music. com/brian/brianssb/brianssbjan16a. The 3s are good at being able to know which things they do that garner the most amount of positive attention and will continue on that path to achieve the very best. And The Man Who Sold World. His music is not usually about his own feelings, but more about the feelings of the characters he's choosing to write about, it's all written from *their* perspective. In this site you can find out which of the 16 types this character 'David Bowie' belongs to!. It a characteristic of someone who feels entraped by consistency; the anthises of an IxxJ who's a person that naturally values both internal (I) and external consistency (J). Ron Hubbard, Anton LaVey, Charles Manson, Osho) were ENxPs. People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul. In fact, the artists who stay the same are the suspicious ones to me speaking as a sp/sx; they either stay the same because they don't wanna loose their fans or they lack enough creativity to evolve. (Albeit it'd come from a different place in a 3 than in a 4. What I've said for years under various guises is that 'Watch Out, the West is going to have a Hitler. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. "Peter Gabriel and Bowie do share similarities when it comes to seeing their work from the outside. Every intuitive type explores ideas, that is not exclusive to Ne types. "I feel this illustrates well why he's a 4 in the enneagram and not a 3 and it also showcases his social instinct quite clearly -- David Bowie, 1997 interview discussing his song 'I'm Afraid of Americans': "That's fairly self-explanatory. I'm just a very good actor. Definitely J over P. Tony wanted Bowie to come back and continue making that "black music" of Young Americans that garnered Bowie so much success. And being a "one-track person" seems to conflict with being an idea collector. If you enjoyed this entry, find out about the personality types of Music and Music Industry characters list.. Towards the end, Bowie became comfortable with who he was. It strives to discover the essence of things and fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle. Ni-doms have to sit around waiting for their inspiration to come from the unconscious. Ain't that just like him. It has been announced that the world will end because of lack of natural resources. In addition to being like Tilda, an INFJ 5w4 Sx/Sp, his comments about seeking out isolation to feel and explore something are uncannily similar to the way Annie Clark (also INFJ 5w4 Sx/Sp) describes her process of writing "Strange Mercy. There are several instances of him talking about these subjects in reference to his songwriting. Because I'm quite cautious when it comes to the dichotomies. First, to answer why Bowie was an introvert, not an extrovert. Ne-dom pursuing their dreams who are in a constant state of change. (Ex)Fan of Brian Molko and Arcade Fire, both NF. Until he met Iman, Bowie suffered from terrible shyness since childhood. It's all there, presented in their creative work. Also, this isn't an attempt to pose this as evidence or backing so much as making a comment, but I saw someone saying somewhere that "He was really good at being David Bowie, but he didn't really know who David Jones was" - does seem like a comment someone'd make about the life and career of a 3w4. David Bowie has said countless times how Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane, Halloween Jack, The Thin White Duke, Nathan Adler, or anything other character he's created are nowhere close to his "true" self. "David Bowie: "Musichas given me over 40 years of extraordinary experiences. Ni doms are way more focussed and have a strong consciousness of their visions (they even tend to dislike dispersion). They really are a black hole, but I've made them people because it would be very hard to explain a black hole onstage. Of all the things to use as evidence for INFJ this one just seems like an argument against that type. There /are/ people I can definitely see it solidly for (e. He didn't do press or publicity for Low, he didn't even have a tour for it. It's part of their adaptive social ability to be a student of culture. I honeslty think the "there's no message in my songs"/ISFP argument is a cliché. In the interview I'm linking below, David Bowie evades questions about his own feelings because, just like Nick Cave (INFJ), he's not terribly in touch with his own feelings. For me, it's about the way he looks in the interviews where's he's more aloof, the fact that he resembles a Fi-dom at his most quiet. 4s sin is envy. Any interview (when he's not on cocaine) shows a man obsessed with future possibilities and abstract thoughts. Despite Bowie not promoting "Low" whatsoever and receiving harsh reviews from critics upon its release, to this day it is considered one of the greatest albums ever made. Introverted Intuition:Ni users tend to go deeper into same idea and analyze it at depth. Bowie seems to marvel at Iggy's spontaneity and quick mind. There are a ton of ISFP votes which make no sense to me. It all tends to become the content of my songs. "David Bowie, 1976 interview: "I think we are due for a revival of God awareness. The man had no bank acount and his manager paid for the things he wanted until the late 70's, which would be pretty weird for an auxiliary Se (the function of the real). David Bowie, 1969 interview: "This country is crying out for a leader. In fact, the artists who stay the same are the suspicious ones to me speaking as a sp/sx; they either stay the same because they don't wanna loose their fans or they lack enough creativity to evolve. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. By telling us flatly about the inauthencity of that world through his music, he actually became the most authentic musician of his time. In fact, that's the whole point of ,,No Direction Home'' by Martin Scorsese, there is no Bob Dylan the person, just the name under which the many faces of the same artist are brought together. His tritype is 4-7-8. com/thomson/type2. She does not have issues writing songs about herself. The point of the exploration of this character would be to understand the overall underlying nature of the feeling itself, to inform the experienced emotion and give it some context to the construction of a moral code (holistic vision of the ego function). Everybody can have lonely feelings and explore them through songwriting. The search for the Holy Grail. If I would type the ultimate ''social chameleon'' it probably would be ENFx ennea 3 so/sx, and I assume Bowie would be somewhere close to this typing. No one's been able to do that yet. and I think ENTP is more likely (how can a ISFP could be typed a 3 so clearly, it doesn't make sense. Trent Reznor goes onto say that creating music is also a business, and that Trent himself was afraid at times of not being able to pay rent if he decided to change his music. Ok you've convinced me ISFP. On the other hand, here are the characteristics of introverted feeling: - seek to understand their own behaviors, motivations, desires, and beliefs - are ruled by their own subjective and personal values - focus on how behaviors and motivations of others are the same or different than their own - focus on being true to who they are. ’ I suddenly felt very apart from my audience. He wasn’t the kind of guy that went into a club and said, 'Look at me, look at me, look at me. Introverted intuition reflects on patterns, relationships, symbols, meanings, and perspectives on matters from complex phenomena to magical connections to practical problems. I didn't really have the nerve to sing my songs on stage, and nobody else was doing them. Bowie is not authentic but very aware of the use of his image, has a flair for the dramatic and business in a detached way. Ni analyzes patterns. And I've always seemed to just collect personalities, ideas. One character who has fame and success which has left her very lonely, and another character who is a "nobody" and who is envious of others' success and wishes he could have it. But I can't see ISTP. That goes against the very grain of what Fi is: consistent self-narrative and values. They can write an entire story of their life, their family, their experience, their fears, their motivations, their quirks and mannerisms all within their Ni. To address the other part of your statement, Bowie's not a 3. If not an artist, he is frequently an unappreciated genius, a great man 'gone wrong', a sort of wise simpleton, a figure for 'psychological' novels. The so/sx instinct stacking in particular, regardless of enneatype, is described as being "attuned to pop culture and the latest trends". Except that everything they describe is Ne opportunism. A healthy 4 lets go of the belief that they are missing something that others have. It's been both mydoorwayofperceptionand the house that I live in. His "dreamy" qualities came from his tertiary Ni. I’m a collector. The 3s key motivations are recognition for their achievements, to have attention, and to be admired. 3s and 4s could both distance themselves from and voice disapproval of a city culture or lifestyle they find un-classy, or feel estranged from other people in general. That would be doomed ^^ "It seems that he uses that program to aid his inspiration, if he really was a strong Intuitive type I think it have been quite easily for him to come up with all those word-associations without using that silly device to help him. David Bowie: "I always thought that I should change all the time … I know for a fact that my personality now is totally different to what it was then. Bowie's Ni-dom on the other hand created cryptic songs like Blackstar which most people still have no idea what that song is about. Okay, that kind of obsession would fit how a lot of people look at Ni, although it'd be more like Ji in Jung-based functions. He's not storing personalities in his head to use for later on, he's saying that he's literally changing his behavior and his accent in real-time when in the presence of another. I really don't know how someone could be more N than this. It's a blister on the backside of humanity, really, whereas Detroit has real people energetically trying to survive. Also, tqm Bonita ❤️Leave thephaxsi alone, fagotty. I understand that the things I associate with Ne in his behaviour could be seen as Se evidence. I'm not buying ISFP. " A 3 would enjoy that fabricated lifestyle, but a 4 would distance themselves from it. Doesn't make them any less of a Ni-dom though. The idea of shapeshifting is present in the oldest forms oftotemismandshamanism, as well as the oldest extant literature andepic poems, including works such as theEpic of Gilgameshand theIliad, where the shapeshifting is usually induced by the act of adeity. His songs are nowhere close to the cryptic nature of Bowie's catalog of music. Ni-dom is hollistic, they stick to whatever vision they have of their art, and while it changes, it changes by becoming more complex, not by jumping from one thing to another. " Documentary INFJ David Bowie - Five Years https://vimeo. Once a third person has joined any kind of conversation or group that was originally supposed to be for me and one other I instantly go into observer/listener mode and don't actively try to participate. "Marilyn Manson has had the same issue as Bowie. People are alwaysthrowing things at me that I've said and I say that I didn't mean anything. What does it mean that Se is subordinated to Ne. He considers his creations to be acting roles with a combination of many external influences. Wanting to entertain, Fe: "I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring"; non existant Fi: "I'm always amazed that people take what I say seriously. You seem to think that only Ne-valuing types are interested in exploring ideas and somehow Ni-valuing types focus on one idea and one idea only. When I wrote the thing, I was so unlike Ziggy Stardust. We have to find that sustenance within ourselves. "Only a couple years after that interview, Bowie created Ziggy who in turn became the "leper messiah" figure sung about in the Ziggy Stardust song. They never stuck to one thing, just like Bowie. What I meant is that Ne supported by Fi has less concentration and may seem more superficiial than Ne supported by Ti. I see him as a super-in-control, well-developed ISFP, but do also see where ENFP would come from. This is usually achieved through an inherent ability of a mythological creature, divine intervention, or the use of magic. Then when the time comes, then can channel that character into their Fe and Se to perfectly embody that role, in ways that can be so nuanced that you might not even know you are looking at the same person. To answer your above question, I don't see how you get Fi-dom and 3w4 from that video/quote. I want to be plastic.
. It's even more obvious when Jung recapitulates the introverted irrational types and describes them in ways that are almost the opposite of the extroverted judging types and the least J overall of the types. I've yet to see a clear defense for ISFP-Bowie. There's a lot because, well, this covers several decades of Bowie's interviews and creative work. It might be this [Eno puts his hands on his hips and gives an air of loucheness] or sometimes it was another kind of person [he buries his chin in his neck in a stiff manner]. Sex becomes a release of energy. Here you can explore of famous people and fictional characters.. His sense of humour (compared to Ricky Gervais by Blackstar's musicians) and way of behaving in live conditions (telling jokes etc) is sheer Ne. I'm ISFP 4w3 and he's everything i've ever wanted to be. : I'm not sure whether it is me changing my mind, or whether I lie a lot. They work together, and one just feeds off the other. Having flair, seing trends, possibilities is Ne not Ni. He wrote the song "The Supermen" which is based on Nietzsche's Ubermensch. That quote can equally apply to Dylan: ,,perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. I don't understand why some people here think that any image type who changes a lot automatically makes them a Ne-valuing type. The face of America that we have to put up with is the McDonalds/Disney/Coke face, this really homogenous, bland cultural invasion that sweeps over us — which is unfortunate, because the aspects of America that are really magical to us are the things it seems to reject, likeblack magic, or the Beat poets: there's an incredibly strong individuality about America that gets glossed over by the corporate invasion. Always moving in a very dynamic way. I assume you type by functions right. He said this about the album: "I remember looking out over these waves of people [who were coming to hear this record played live] and thinking, ‘I wonder how many Velvet Underground albums these people have in their record collections. That quote can equally apply to Dylan: ,,perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. Trent Reznor said of Bowie: "[David] seems to have not only created one larger than life identity, but then while [that identity] was getting bigger, threw it out and created another one, threw that out, and created another one. And I don't get what kind of function theory involves starting from the lower functions in that order (Se to Ti to Ni). He wasn’t an attention-seeking guy in the way a lot of really extroverted people are. Ignore my comments below saying Peter Gabriel is ENFP because he's also INFJ. ""I’ve always found that I collect. I think you arrived at the ENFP conclusion for the wrong reasons tough. I'd actually argue that in Bowie's case, it's not Ne, but his so/sx stacking that's responsible for it. They enjoy tinkering with ideas, perspectives, theories, visions, stories, symbols, and metaphors. I don't even take what I am seriously"; Ni-dom: "I always had a repulsive need to be something more than human. Still, while I agree with Ni, that does not make him a J (and like I said, I no longer type by function stacks). All that energy just ends up as sex. You can read more details about the so/sx stacking here. He created Ziggy, a new-age preacher character with a messiah complex. com:"The Many Faces of INFJ -- Subtype: The Method ActorOh the power of the persona, when you project an image, people will create your identity based on that image, regardless of what is actually going on in your head. Look a the way he works using a program to write lyrics. mysterymeat, you make good points on him being more of a Ni type than a Ne type, specially how it takes him him allot to write a song, which is more true for an introverted process. Everybody's plastic, but I love plastic. I just don't feel comfortable with more than two people. Enneagram 3 elitism is different. Since when has Madonna had difficulty writing songs about herself. Rest in peace. For INFJs who value both Ni and Fe, they can switch between personas to suit whomever they encounter. "And this idea of Ni being connected to the idea of left-brained-ness is a new one to me. He used politics and theatrics and created this thing that governed and controlled the show for those 12 years. v=Q3L58KyHC_M@bobnickmad Yay. Also, think what Bowie's career is all about: it's constant change and re-invention. ENFP are: Ne-Fi-Fe-Se-Ni-Te-Ti-Si. Ziggy has been talking about this amazing spaceman who will be coming down to save the earth. Taken from Enneagram Institute:"In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. "All through my youth, I would use bravado and device – costume and flamboyant behavior – in a desperate attempt to not be iced out of everything. I think here it's the difference between the ,,enigmatic'' perception types like Bowie or Dylan who were always enigmatic, contradictory and changing, and someone like Patti Smith which was more clear in her judgements and self-perception: Smith probably had a much more differentiated judging function even tough a P-leading type as well. How did MBTI arrived at the conclusion that such a person is J if all that matters for him/her is perception. That's generally how it is for Ni types. I remember him recording I’m Afraid of Americans and saying, after one of the early takes, ‘No, he’s got to be more self-doubting than that. If you think that Fi writes only about themselves or only care about self-expression, you miss a big part of what they are. that's where I was at in the early '70s. He created Ziggy, a new-age preacher character with a messiah complex. Sure you can link his interest in Nietzsche, Crowley, Jung, Mishima etc to Ni. At work, INFJs may look like INTPs (laid back geniuses) and socially, they may resemble ENFPs (charismatic idealists) or ESFJs (social organizers). Discover Array, and more, famous people, fictional characters and celebrities here!. Even admitting that his fan-favorite characters Ziggy Stardust, Thin White Duke, et al are actually reinterpretations of Hitler. That said, I might just be reacting to buzzwords and I do understand arguments for Bowie as a 3 and as a 4 both, though I still personally cast my vote for 3 - I just wanted to get that bee out of my bonnet. Bowie ran off to Berlin to escape the sycophants of Los Angeles. Nor do I think changing one's music style thorugh one's carier makes one a social type. The starmen that he is talking about are called the infinites, and they are black-hole jumpers. That they want to live those things they imagine in the real world, unlike INP who just likes to create imaginary world with lots of detail, ENFP wants to actually live their dreams. In an interview with Stevens he mentions that he usually takes from his own experience as a starting point and speaks of characters from there. Also, MBTI-wise, I don't feel like "Blackstar" is a good single example of anything overall, since it was at the very end of his life - he'd had plenty of time to develop all of his mind by the time he released that album, which someone like him certainly would have. I don't see how his fascination with cult leaders and Hitler figures rules out NP types, after all a lot of famous spiritual or "cult" leaders in recent history (L. "David Bowie, 1997 interview: "Looking for sustenance, looking for something outside of ourselves for sustenance, can only lead to depression, I think. I never claimed Bowie is 3 tough, just that the ''social chameleon'' could be more likely a 3 than a 4. David was more taking it all in and always studying everybody. It was a real effort to become a social animal. ENFPs are many things, but the last thing I'd call them are "enigmas". ENXP for sure, I mean just look at him. Anyway, in functions MBTI that quote would be Fe, but I personally would say it's more Extroversion than anything or at alest being so/sx. Some musician are known for their works, other is for their presentation, Bowie had both.
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Category: Music and Music Industry