Ulysses S. Grant Myers-Brigs type - MBTI, enneagram and personality type info
P is positively correlated with openness, but it's not a strong correlation. The main driving factor of each type's perception in this case is the other's shit function. Discover Array, and more, famous people, fictional characters and celebrities here!. Firstly, I am not affiliated with Celebrity Types in any way. Where are you getting extroversion from anyway. He was the only one who was willing to do whatever it took to win. , making him certainly “I” rather than “E,” and probably NTJ as well. And even if he did, that wouldn't outweigh everything else and nothing says INTJs must under all circumstances be great leaders anyway. That seems to be more “F” than “T. Had they not typed him ISFP, I still would have. It cannot get any worse than this.
. But no, I am not a "Celebrity Types sheep. According to the Rubenzer study it wasn't TJ at all. My argument was because Grant was never able to separate his superstition from his work, he may not have been the T type he appears to be. Well, here’s the thing: strategy is inherently TJ. I have never heard of Grant being "effeminite" or "sensitive" ever. As for superstition. In his personal life, I assess him to have a slight F preference. If you enjoyed this entry, find out about the personality types of Politicans and Leaders characters list.. I am 1000% certain that Celebrity Types is behind this. Despite the only limited correelation between mbti and big five, an NJ wouldn't score below the 10th percentile on both those particular things. Myers and Briggs operationalized his theories by making the MBTI. Welcome to MBTIBase - PersonalityBase, here you can learn about Ulysses S. Grant MBTI type.. I just have an extremely hard time seeing him as anything other than IxTJ. You are all wrong, he was an ESFJ: patriotic, sensitive, down -to-earth, closed, directive. I would not actually be surprised if the people who run Celebrity Types created multiple accounts and voted for ISFP. So yes, the best guess for someone extremely low in both openness and conscientiousness is a P type. Just like a forgiving, unplanned military tactic would decrease a general’s effectiveness, so too would an inspection style that glosses over details decrease an inspector’s effectiveness. ) Also, Stonewall Jackson was FAR more superstitious - he believed God shielded him from bullets in battle, and he believed he had to raise his arms in battle because he thought one half of his body was bigger than the other, and that food that tastes bad must be better for him. Most INTJs are able to separate their superstitions from their professional life (but if you can provide examples of several who can’t, I’m interested in hearing them). His score on Agreeableness. I just have an extremely hard time seeing him as anything other than IxTJ. Now, why I don’t agree with the second half: firstly, your argument for Grant’s "TJ-ness” is based on his behavior while in the military, mostly to do with his strategy. The only instances where you showed him acting INTJ are instances where he had to. Like you, I tend to find Keirsey’s typings more in line with my own. They aren't locked like that. I still don’t have enough evidence to determine the S vs N or J vs P. How was his leadership style more TJ as president. To use that to prove his “NTJ-ness” is a straw man argument. The “I” is obvious. He had a gift of ruthlessly using impartial logic on the battlefield, which I think would override him being a little sensitive as a child. At the very least, the people who voted ISFP could only have directly copied Celebrity Types without putting a fraction of a second of individual thought into it and likely without any knowledge of Ulysses Grant whatsoever. And by the way, since you admit that you don't know about the S/N and J/P, and claim that means you have to turn to "the functions," that isn't really helpful since ISFP and INTJ have the same functions, is it. Sure, it’s presented in quantifiable terms, but it’s still inspired by the cognitive functions. Here you can explore of famous people and fictional characters.. If you have a case for INTJ, though, that rebuts my thoughts, I’m interested in hearing it. This article http://www. Assuming this article is true, at least some of his military success can be attributed to something other than strategy. I ultimately arrived at the same conclusion as them by my own reasoning, not blind assumption. The TJ is absolutely firm and clear in Grant's case. Why not ISTP then. Grant's entire strategy involved ruthlessly sending thousands of Union soldiers to their deaths in hordes.
. Second, on cognitive functions and Jung:. Isn’t that a very extreme statement that contradicts your comments about the spectrum-like nature of the MBTI. Now I’ll respond in turn. This does not destroy meaning of type because, like you say, letters “aren’t locked like that. The second letter in the personality type acronym corresponds to the preference within the sensing-intuition dimension: “S” stands for sensing and “N” stands for intuition.. I am at a total loss. ”Sixth, on Grant himself, part 3:. They are not the same what soever. Also: His Presidency. Personality traits exist on a spectrum. Because of that, I have no choice but to return to the roots of MBTI: cognitive functions. He was an ISTJ. If it was related to type, you could even argue it was related to N rather than F. He wasn't wishy washy like McClellan. Third, on Celebrity Types:. Even if not directly tested, public voting can provide good accuracy regarding Ulysses S. Grant Myers-Briggs and personality type!. Yes, I know they typed Grant ISFP. And if the principles by which something is based are invalid, than the thing itself is invalid as well. This is the worst typing ever right here. Now, if you want to say Grant was ISTJ rather than INTJ, I can see a reasonable case for that. And besides, if it wasn't for Celebrity Types, Grant would have 6 votes for INTJ right now, if for no other reason than they would be copying Keirsey instead, who happens to be right in this instance. Because of this (among other things, like his failure as President…INTJs tend to be relatively strong leaders), I decided he may not be INTJ and rather was some sort of I-F type. I no longer deem it integral to typing Grant because "nothing says INTJs must under all circumstances be great leaders anyway” and, likewise, nothing says ISFPs must under all circumstances not be great leaders anyway. Just going by Big Five conversion that points to SP, not NTJ. But if you believe that, surely you also must agree that ISFPs can exhibit some N, T, and J qualities. There is no rational argument against that. He was the most competent general. (Not that you'd be right to do so, as it isn't really type related. Music, for example, is probably a stereotypically FP domain, and yet I can name several musicians who voluntarily entered that field and may be INTJs. Grant was a man of the 19th century. No one is 100% one trait or another. There isn't one here (though he is an awfully good general, nothing says an ISFP can't be good generals, just like nothing says INTJs can't be bad leaders). Another thing you neglect is that Grant was the only Union general who showed COMPETENCE in those "TJ" tactics - the other ones before him, like McClellan (who you could make a strong case was actually FP) were known to be wishy-washy, indecisive, and too soft. Because career choice and type don’t have a perfect correlation, Grant willingly entering the military has little bearing on my typing of him. Fourth, on Grant himself, part 1:. It's like saying Jack Sparrow is not A good pirate because he isn't SJ, but look at where he got. And no, Grant wasn't really a complet failure as President. I mean, you don't seriously expect me to believe he was the same type as Jimi Hendrix or that flaming emo hipster guy I know who likes dressing in trendy fashions, making concrete art and traveling around. Not to mention "to a degree unparalleled among presidents, he did not strive for accomplishment" and "he had no interest in abstract, theoretical, or philosophical discussions, and was not intellectually curious. And even if that was true, it is not limited to F types and certainly does not override the literally everything else in favor of a T preference even if it was an exclusively F thing. Part of the reason he was known as a “butcher” general is because of his superstition. That was a last resort. And even if that suggested Grant was an S, I would still think ISTJ is 1,000,000,000,000 times more likely than ISFP. I agree with you that INTJs can exhibit some S, F, and P qualities. For all your rambling, you never gave any evidence to suggest he was S or P, and the evidence you gave to suggest he was F is based on a stereotype and a misassociation of superstition with F, rather than prevailing patterns of 19th century thought as it should accurately be attributed to. He was not concerned about being liked or doing what was "right. If he is, then MBTI is meaningless because it fails to achieve its purpose of sort in people into similar groups. He governed more like a TJ too and was NOT a failure. Low score on Openess is not related wit SP. So I don’t feel crazy in typing him ISFP. A Huff Post argument about 19th century superstition does not counter overwhelming factual evidence about Grant's strategy during the Civil War. The question is how he became this military commander. You say that "no one is 100% one type or another" and that "traits exist on a spectrum,” but then say that ISFPs have zero of the qualities that make a military general. Based on careful analyzation of these arguments, I lean more toward ISFP, not because of CT, but because many of the TJ arguments were used in regards to him being a general that was competent in his field. What, so an INTJ can be effeminate and superstitious but an ISFP can’t have any qualities that a good general should have. If someone is in the role of a strategist, he will act TJ because he has to. 3) J is more strongly positively correlated with conscientiousness (0. ” He was also superstitious, which isn’t exactly a trait I associate with most INTJs. Based on a by-the-letters typing of Grant, using the evidence I have obtained, I assess him to be a clear I and a slight F. 2nd percentile. Loyal to their peers and to their internal value systems, but not overly concerned with respecting laws and rules if they get in the way of getting something done. Detached and analytical, they excel at finding solutions to practical problems.. Thanks for the response. The functional order is different. 9th percentile. But he would exhibit, around 40% of the time, N, T, and J traits. ISFPs have zero of those qualities. For all your rambling, you never gave any evidence to suggest he was S or P, and the evidence you gave to suggest he was F is based on a stereotype and a misassociation of superstition with F, rather than prevailing patterns of 19th century thought as it should accurately be attributed to. Cognitive functions are complete bullshit, and this idea that results that an ISFP and INTJ are somehow similar types because of nonsense about "inferiors" and other pseudoscientific psychobabble is a prime example why. Beethoven, Eminem, Jay-Z, Miles Davis, and more. But there are TJs who willingly enter FP professions too. 54th percentile. Lincoln INTP). And if he’s very smart, he could even be a great general. I can't speak for the other voters but here's my rationale for typing Grant ISFP:. html even suggests that his superstition helped him win battles. Completely out of the question. " I don't treat the Big Five scores religiously (they're not perfect conversions to MBTI and don't factor in the functions) but there better be a strong case for another type if I'm going to disregard them (e. Just ridiculous. If Jung’s theories are “pseudoscience” and “psychobabble,” as you claim they are, then the MBTI is operationalized pseudoscientific psychobabble. Another thing you neglect is that Grant was the only Union general who showed COMPETENCE in those "TJ" tactics - the other ones before him, like McClellan (who you could make a strong case was actually FP) were known to be wishy-washy, indecisive, and too soft. He was an ISTJ. ISTP makes the most sense - Debaser made some pretty good arguments for him being a T type, but it ends there. Because MBTI exists on a spectrum, it’s reasonable to assume that someone who’s close on a letter is capable of exhibiting traits of the opposite letter. The article I linked to in my original post already accounted for this; it was as much superstition as it was strategy that his casualties were so high. He’s not a Jimi Hendrix or a “flaming emo hipster guy” because (a) he’s not strongly FP like they are, (b) he’s in a TJ role, and (c) not all ISFPs are like that either. Grant is an INTJ because he acts like an INTJ. But not an incompetent leader. I know he was referred to as a “butcher” general because his troops suffered enormous casualties due to his strategy. huffingtonpost. He was the best strategist. His score on Openness. Because ISFPs and INTJs have the same cognitive functions (in a different order), I decided that, rather than being INTJ, Grant was actually an extremely healthy, well-balanced, smart ISFP. Imagine, for a second, that you meet someone who’s 100% I, 60% S, 60% F, and 60% P. He was incredibly low on openness and conscientiousness which means SP is also likely, and pretty much everything about what people had to say about him makes introvert seem obvious. The point is this: I did not type Grant ISFP because CT suggested it. It's the opposite. ISFP is literally the last type I would ever in a million years expect to so much as join the millitary voluntarily, let alone become a general, let alone become the general who won the Civil War. They repress eachother's favorite methods of perception. Grant was the total opposite in every way. Blah where has my mind went. This will be very long, but I want to be thorough. What is the best option for the MBTI type of Ulysses S. Grant? What about enneagram and other personality types?. First, a few general comments:. He was not limited by morals or ideals. Jung theorized that the dominant function acts alone in its preferred world: exterior for extraverts and interior for introverts.. That said, I don’t use them to type people unless I can’t reach a conclusion based on the four letters. That's how it works. that also describe him as such). com/jonathan-hobratsch/ulysses-s-grant-civil-war_b_5244194. Grant’s superstitions did affect his career in drastic ways, meaning he *might* not be a T. Personality as an abstract concept, cannot be observed through physical behavior, only through testing, so considering Grant was low on both conscientousness and openess, he he. Though it wouldn’t be “natural,” he probably would be a competent general if put into that role. If it was related to type, you could even argue it was related to N rather than F. You are in the best place to test MBTI and learn what type Ulysses S. Grant likely is!. ) Also, Stonewall Jackson was FAR more superstitious - he believed God shielded him from bullets in battle, and he believed he had to raise his arms in battle because he thought one half of his body was bigger than the other, and that food that tastes bad must be better for him. One final thing: I realize I’ve dropped the issue of his failure/lack thereof as President. ” I agree with the first half of that statement, but still think it’s mild evidence in favor of F. Keirsey really sums it all up beyond that. That definitely suggests an enthrallment of sorts with military strategy, which could mean he truly does have preferences for at least T and J. It was all about crunching numbers. Jung pioneered the theory of cognitive functions. The SP is more broad woth their perception and let's their information go when it proves to be useless while an NJ is far more deep in their favored perception and prefers to focus on future possibilities rather than present concrete data. But Grant in person apparently had an almost effeminate demeanor, and was quite prudish and sensitive. He’d be categorized as ISFP, correct. " He had all the qualities that make a military general. I’m somewhat surprised you haven’t ever heard of Grant being called “effeminate" or “sensitive,” considering the fact that if you merely type in “ulysses s grant personality” (no quotes) into Google, articles on the first page alone describe him as both (and they cite biographies, etc. If I’m not mistaken, Lincoln’s superstitions affected his personal life but not his career. On the surface, Grant seems like a total INTJ; he was the Union’s best general and was known for his military genius. How is this relevant to type. A stronger argument you present for Grant’s “INTJ-ness” is that he willingly entered the military. Grant may not have been 100% T or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that he still clearly leaned in that direction. Fifth, on Grant himself, part 2:. I wasn’t arguing “Grant’s superstitious and therefore SF” because, like you, I realize that Lincoln and most other people of that time were superstitious in some regard. Seventh, final words on Grant’s type:. Is more likely SP. Because I couldn’t reach a conclusion on Grant’s four letters, I returned to the fundamentals by which the letters are based - the functions - and reached a conclusion based on them. Also ISFPs and INTJs have the same cognitive functions but in a very different order, so they aren't really the same at all. And, like I said earlier, ISFPs and INTJs have similar cognitive functions. Thus, arguing Grant is TJ because his strategy is TJ doesn’t cut it for me. What happened along his rise to the highest rank. Your counter for my superstition points is a straw man argument too. OK, let me explain something: Grant was called a "butcher" general. He was cold, decisive, mean, determined, and unbending. INFPs, like most introverts, are quiet and reserved. They prefer not to talk about themselves.. In this site you can find out which of the 16 types this character 'Ulysses S. Grant' belongs to!. Even Lincoln was a bit superstitious. Also: His Presidency. " Here are a few examples of my disagreement with them limited purely to the presidents: I believe Wilson and Coolidge to be INTJ, Truman to be ISTJ, Obama to be INTP, and more. I’ve known about their typing of Grant as ISFP for quite a while but never gave that claim much credence; I disagree with them on almost every president they’ve typed. This is it folks. Every person’s preference can be found on a spectrum, so just choose the letter you identify with most.. But that’s not the point. To find out what your MBTI personality type is you need to complete the MBTI questionnaire and take part in a feedback session from a qualified MBTI practitioner.. Keirsey really sums it all up beyond that. That is how powerful their bullshit is, how bad it smells, and how sheepish most people, some of whom comically claim to be "independent thinkers," are. ISFP is my finale. Arguing that a general is TJ because he has a TJ strategy is like arguing an inspector is S because he has to make sure the little details are in order. His score on Conscientiousness. All that tells me is Grant was a man of his times. Again, I can’t speak for the other ISFP voters but I did my research on Grant before typing him, and came to the same conclusion as CT because of my own rationale, not theirs. Thus, MBTI can trace its roots back to Jung. It seems like he was renowned for his "Ti" way of handling things. When mbti theorists talk about functional strengths, they are talking about strengths related to personality traits, not things like sports, intelligence, or skilled trades. I agree with you there. But that’s not really the point, because you say “it is not limited to F types and certainly doesn’t override…everything else in favor of a T preference. As for the rant that people think SP's and NJ's are similar because they use the same functions, they are not. In the final sense, the evidence for INTJ or at least IxTJ clearly outweighs ISFP according to every reasonable measure and the only argument you present for ISFP is based on the paradoxical notion of an ISFP who just so happens to act exactly like an INTJ, a notion which defeats the purpose and destroys the meaning of type. The ends justified the means. He governed more like a TJ too and was NOT a failure. In addition, every article I’ve read about him describes him as quiet/stoic/etc. However, after doing some more reading, I wasn’t so sure. I respectfully disagree with them on almost every president, actually. Back to the point, I'd believe Grant as an ISFP over an INTJ due to the methods of each argument and the test evidence suggesting he is more likely that type. Even you would have not voted ISFP because the only reason the thought was ever planted in your head in the first place was CT. A strategy which was pure unadulterated TJ and no FP. That only makes him human. (Not that you'd be right to do so, as it isn't really type related. I certainly don’t believe the MBTI is invalid, and thus, I can’t believe the cognitive functions are invalid either. Grant was the total opposite in every way. And again, even if he did have a handful of FP qualities.